Transition into CC teaching with 2 MA's...no Ph.D

I have been reading a lot of various posts here and been able to obtain some interesting information regarding the initial steps in teaching in post-secondary academics.

Let me start off by indicating a that I am a high school science instructor of 5 years with a Master's in Science Education close to completion, teaching everything from remedial to AP students. The job is rewarding, the pay is good, the hours are obviously monotonous...the issue is the maturity of the students seems to be declining every year and it is beginning to be a nuisance.

My long-term goal is to make the transition into CC teaching (full-time). I have begun to explore and talk to local CC's about adjuncting, more or less for the experience and to make sure that I really want to be teaching at this level of academia.
However, one department chair and a few other FT instructors indicated to me (really suggested) that I pursue a Ph.D. if I wanted to land a Full-time position down the line.

I had mentioned that there were not any colleges/universities locally that offered the specific Ph.D. I wanted to obtain, and was considering going for a second MA in field, in addition to my MA in Sci Ed. They all kind of cringed at the idea. I mentioned that I have researched many Comm. Colleges in the region, and less than 25% of FT science faculty holds only a MA.

I guess my question is, I do not have the option to obtain a Ph.D. in Geoscience (or Science) Education in my area(s), and I do not want to obtain a Ph.D. or some other regular Education type Ph.D. just to get one. I figured since I will have a Science Education Masters, I would pursue a Master’s directly in field. Would this be a wise decision to make if I was to pursue a FT teaching position with a CC down the line?

Plus, I came across an online school through here, Curtin University of Technology that offers a PH.D. in Sci Edu, though it is an overseas school and I do not know anything about them, their reputation, the acceptance of the school and their degrees here in the US.

Can anyone provide me with some suggestions and advise, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

I think they're being a little rigid, personally. Of course, it's best to shoot for the PhD, and there are a lot of PhDs in science academia, even at the small college level. But to cringe at the notion of masters-only at the CC level? Come on, there are tons of science profs at small colleges and CCs with masters-only. Do you happen to live in an area that's really nasty competitive for academic positions? That might explain it.

I've never heard of the college you mentioned. Have you looked into UNISA, though? They're dirt cheap and very demanding. It'd be a real doctorate, one you could stand behind proudly. I don't know if they have science doctorates available at a distance, though. I don't know if such an animal is possible.

I'd think the adjunct experience would be better for your job prospects than the second masters, though. Get as much as you can, check into possible online opportunities as well (though on-ground is preferable).

I'll check and see if I can find anything that fits the bill for you. Maybe (actually, for certain) someone else here knows more about this than me.

 

Reality check - if you want to teach in higher ed., I suggest you do what it takes to become attractive as a candidate - not what YOU want to do.

Did you say that it appeared that your student were more and more immature each year?

 

Yes, if you want to be attractive as a candidate, do not assume a smug attitude of condescension like Jim. Nothing you've said here impresses me as immature in the least. You asked honest questions that warrant a respectful answer. Jim, on the other hand... (Hi, Jim! )

Just finish your masters and--if you possibly can before that day is at hand--get some adjunct experience. When the time is right and necessity calls--i.e., you decide you'd like to move up higher than the CC level--then perhaps you'll be better able to position yourself to work on a PhD, at least PT on-ground while teaching at a CC.

But don't let anyone tell you it cannot be done with masters-only at the CC level. That just isn't the case, so long as you're willing to move where the jobs are.

 

Curtin University of Technology is a public university in Western Australia and is certainly legal and correctly accredited in this country. While there is an official pecking order of universities in Australia, legally degrees of the same level are equal and Curtin's degrees are as good as any other Australian degree.

 

You don't say where you want to teach. If the local CC's have told you a PhD is required to be hired on full-time, I would take that at face value. The fact is, in many fields, there is a glut of PhDs chasing few tenure-track positions. CC's used to routinely hire masters-holders, but now hire PhD-holders simply because they can.

But this is a local situation. There are CC's (and in fact a few 4-year colleges) that have a terrible time attracting candidates either due to location or pay. If you are willing to move to teach, you will have a greater chance of being hired with a masters degree. High turnover and high number of recent faculty hires with masters degrees are good tip-offs.

All that said, a PhD is probably the single best way to improve your hirability. But as others have said, get some college-level teaching any way you can to improve your chances with just a masters degree.

 

I agree. In another thread someone questioned the "credential" inflation phenomenon. It seems that this is a clear example of credential inflation, the PhD is becoming the standard requirement to teach at CC colleges in some fields given the glut of PhDs. At the University level, it is normal to see someone with a PhD in sciences to wait up to 6 years of post-doc work before landing a tenure track position.

The other issue is that many PhDs are not capable of publishing and unable to retain a tenure track position so the CC seems like the only way to remain the in the teaching business. Some fields are very competitive and getting published in a top journal takes a lot more that the three letters. I know at least one person that lost a tenure track and had to go into CC teaching for the same reason.

 

I'd concur with all these points, for what it's worth. I can say that in a somewhat related field (math), my CC has one FT prof with a masters and one who's working on a masters, and a nearby 4 year private just hired someone to teach math who will finish their masters--presumably--within the next year. Math may be different, though.

 

Yeah, that's possible, Steve. The remedial courses are getting ridiculous, and the level of student math acumen is worse.

My wife has her masters, and the lion's share of the PhD coursework (maybe 45-50 gr cr hr of pure math)--as I've repeated over and over ad naseum on this forum, think I'm proud of her?--and when the local college found out, they were all over her for adjunct duties. She taught a couple classes for them last year, but eventually, with the fifth born sucking up her time (and various and sundry other parts of her anatomy), she stopped taking on additional classes. She's refused them for the last three semesters, and they get huffy over at administration--I mean it! It's probably not helped my standing with them. And they always bug me about it, just as if they haven't been told "no" the previous 50 times they asked. They're just desperate for someone to teach college algebra (which ain't what it used to be, let me tell ya), pre-college algebra, remedial math, pre-remedial math, pre-cro-magnon math, and banging sticks together and grunting 101.

It's amazing how our high schools, in just a generation or two, have dumbed down the average aspiring college student. Or perhaps it's just that everybody goes to college now, so you get the people that belong in perfectly good trades rather than higher ed (not that there's anything wrong with that). Or maybe it's a combo of the two factors.

 

To answer a couple of questions here...I want to teach CC in SW FLorida where I reside.

It seems like a majority of individuals are suggesting here that I pursue a Ph.D. of somesort...

If this is the case or the avenue I need to go down...can anyone tell me of some online schools that offer Ph.D.'s or Ed.D. in education that are accred. in the USA?

Thanks

 

It's always best to have a PhD if it's feasible; if you think it's worth your while, the University of Nebraska and Purdue offer minimal residency/primarily online doctorates in education. There are probably others.

The University of Florida happens to offer a PhD or two in a couple different fields via DL as well. You should check them out if the doctorates are anywhere close to your areas of interest.

http://www.distancelearning.ufl.edu/Programs.aspx?q=&pt=4

 

Noby,

There is so much that is unclear here that I would not attempt to provide any meaningful guidance.

I am sure that others will...

 

I have no clear idea what Jim's getting at. It's probably something annoying, though.

By the way, I did an informal survey of Florida CCs. This was not exhaustive, nor was it scientific. But it appeared that the split is roughly 50/50 between PhDs and masters in CC faculty down there in science disciplines. This was what I would expect. Now, you may also want to consider that some of those people with masters may have been hired years before when it wasn't as competitive (assuming it wasn't), or that many of them may have had an inside track by adjuncting or knowing the right people, thus they weren't hired in true competive hire situations, so you may want to factor that in.

Also, my guess is that Florida is somewhat more competitive than many other states, as probably a lot of people who were doctors, professors and researchers move down there in an early retirement, get bored, and then stumble into work part-time or even full time as CC profs. This could also skew things for you down there. This is almost certainly common in desirable states or retirement areas. I've found that, as a rule, Colorado seems to be very competitive for professorships as well. Makes sense, it's a nice place where a lot of people like to live, it's a buyer's market from the perspective of colleges and universities (this does not, however, explain how Ward Churchill got hired. That's the mystery of all time, explained only by reference to a general state of insanity and/or moral bankruptcy among his particular hiring committee).

It sounds like you're doing your due diligence here, so keep checking with people on local and area faculties. You also better confirm with them that a doctorate in education will do you any good before you invest time in one. You also might want to see if a slight switch in fields would work. You interested in teaching math or statistics, by chance? Mighty hot seller's markets there. There might be an idea for continuing ed at the grad level, a master of arts in math teaching or something like that. harvard offers a master of liberal arts in math for teaching that a full time educator could finish all online plus one semester residency.

I can say that in my tiny little anecdotal experience--the community college where I teach--the three FT science faculty members have PhDs from U of Kansas (Biology), Northern Colorado (Chemistry), and a school in the State of Texas system (Biology). That is a small sample, though, and we are very fortunate to have them; I know of better nearby 4 year colleges that do not boast as strong a science faculty.

 

And how exactly did the school systems do that?

 

On a personal note, I graduated from high school back in 1979. After a short bout in college (the student union at Stony Brook was more interesting back then than classes) I didn't go to college again until the mid 90's. After such a long time away from the class room, I did quite poorly on an extrance exam in math and took one year of remedial math classes. They were self-driven classes and I started with fractions, believe it or not. I am still surprised at how much I had forgotten. Proudly, I received an A in all those remedial classes and A in the required math for my AA degree at SPJC. I think it is true that if "you don't use it you lose it."

 

By not demanding enough of them.

By not properly prioritizing.

By giving them text books that look like Walt Disney threw up in technicolor rather than creating texts that actually attempt to coherently teach them a little something.

By subjecting them to radical social experimentation rather than teaching them basic thinking skills.

We rank near the bottom of all industrialized nations in math and science performance on standardized tests, and near the top in terms of how well our students rate their own abilities in those disciplines (I recall some news item along those lines within the last year or so, you probably saw it also).

So I guess the upshot is that on the whole, they're simultaneously smug and dumb. Now that's quite a combo platter.

 

Where does one find unbiased original historical source material for the history of the dumbing down of education in America? More importantly, how can I find out whether my high school diploma from Fruita Monument High School in Fruita, Colorado, was dumbed down?

 

One more piece of advice for the prospective CC teacher - read this blog:

http://suburbdad.blogspot.com/

It provides an interesting perspective on a lot of CC topics, including hiring.