Aspen Univ. MBA

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by bceagles, Jun 22, 2006.

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  1. bceagles

    bceagles Member

    Is this a legit NA program? I think you can enroll in the program w/o an undergrad. Would Excelsior transfer these credits in for undergrad/mba?
     
  2. siersema

    siersema Active Member

    The program, and school, are legit. It's NA (DETC), and since Excelsior doesn't have a final policy on NA credits it's hard to say. Excelsior will transfer some graduate credits to undergrad programs, though I don't know the details of it. I asked at one time if I could take a graduate course at NCU that would map to an undergrad course in an Excelsior Undergrad in IT, I was told yes. I've since moved to the Excelsior Liberal Arts department and they advertise to their students to take Excelsior Graduate Liberal Arts courses for dual credit.
     
  3. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Do yourself a big favor and stay away from NA-accredited MBAs - Aspen or any other.

    If you want an MBA in North America, get a solid RA undergraduate degree, then take the GMAT exam, and find a place in the most prestigious AACSB-accredited MBA program which will take you. If you do poorly on the GMAT, you should understand that as an indication the MBA is not for you. Preferably, there should be a couple of years of work experience between the undergraduate degree and the MBA.

    A lot of people on this forum exist in a Bizzaro world where program quality, Regional Accreditation, and AACSB Accreditation are of little or no importance. They want to know what's cheapest, fastest, and where they can get maximum credit for previous work. Don't listen to them. Do the MBA right - or don't do it at all.
     
  4. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    It's legit. It's NA (DETC) but a well respected NA school. In fact, if I recall, Dr. Bear refered to it by name in his own personal story about distance education, though I don't know if he ever attended there.

    For the NA vs. RA..........the best I can say is what I said here:

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24711

    As for Kalos, he's entitled to his opinion, but he seems to be earning a reputation here.....so take it with a grain of salt.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Aspen Univ. MBA

    Kalos,

    Although I agree with you that a real MBA should be an AACSB and RA accredited.

    A NA accredited MBA program might suit the needs of some professionals. I know some that have used a NA MBA to get a CMA in Canada or as a way to improve themselves.

    I personally went to a residential top business school in Canada but my salary did not improve as I was already making a comfortable salary but it did open doors to different oppotunities. In my case, may be an NA MBA would have been enough for my needs for self improvement and more knowledge.

    You shouldn't trash everyone wanting a NA degree as it has its utility. Not everyone wants to be a hot shot CEO at fortune 500 hundred company.
     
  6. siersema

    siersema Active Member

    I don’t know… He does have a good point about the people on this forum being from Bizzaro World. I mean it’s amazing to me that here on a distance learning forum that so many distance learners have a positive attitude towards distance programs that are accredited by The Distance Education and Training Council. I’m sorry if anyone missed the sarcasm, I took Sarcasm 101 at a DETC accredited school.

    As for the actual topic, Bceagles if your goal is to work on an MBA at the same time as an Undergrad degree there are also many cheaper NA and RA programs that will let you sign-on as a non-degree seeking student. You could then just transfer those credits to Excelsior (if allowed). There are often limits to the number of credits you can take as a non-degree seeking student though, so you’d have to check the policy at each individual school. As far as prices, I believe there’s a thread for *gasp* the lowest cost MBA credits.. oh here it is http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24617

    As I mentioned before I considered and had approval from NCU and Excelsior to take some IT courses (for the MBA in Applied Computer Science), I would have signed up as a non-degree seeking student at NCU and just had the transcript sent to Excelsior upon completion of each pre-approved course.
     
  7. Kalos

    Kalos member

    RFVAlve: I appreciate your general concern about improving one's knowledge base whenever possible - I share the same view and I never stop learning - but there are charactersitics of an MBA which make it unsuitable as a business investment unless certain criteria are met.

    Prime among them is go to the best school available. Many people invest a lot of time and effort into getting an MBA thinking that "something" will improve - but it never pays off. I see that all the time in my work - people sweating blood and sacrificing their families for 2-3 years to get a 3rd rate MBA that no employer respects or recruits. They never even got on the "promotion train" which will actually let them use their MBA in a Director role twenty years later.

    There's already a saturation in 3rd rate MBAs. It's the debased coin of the realm. I don't think it is charitable to advise anyone that "Aspen" or any other 3rd and 4th rate NA MBA is worth even a glance. If they want a recreational MBA, perhaps they should be saved a lot of grief and steered to a boat instead. Or maybe aim for a 2nd rate RA LD MBA for followup CGA/CMA credentials. It is not necessary to sink all the way downmarket to an NA/DETC MBA.
     
  8. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Kalos, out of genuine interest, I would love to see your criteria for selecting an MBA.

    First choice AACSB and RA of course.

    Second rate would be RA? What about RA non-AACSB?

    What about little Po-dunk MBA's, like Fort Hayes State University or Amberton University MBA's? Are they 3rd rate? Beneath recruitment?

    Seriously, would love to hear your thoughts.
     
  9. Kalos

    Kalos member

    MBA Ranking Criteria

    Well, OK. Since you're serious...

    #1, #2, #3 Choose the best "name" school which is accessible. Something in the top 50 in North America. Invariably (?) RA and AACSB-accredited
    #4 Highly-ranked school outside the USA - Britain, Europe, Asia. Consistently high-listed in The Economist or Financial Times
    #5 RA, AACSB-accredited in North America - national name
    #6 RA, AACSB-accredited in North America - local name - eg East Podunk U.
    #7 RA, ACBSP-accredited
    #8 RA, Established UoP-type schools, not AACSB/ACBSP-accredited
    #9 Buy the book: "Complete Idiot's Guide to MBA Basics"
    #10 Buy the Book: "Managers - Not MBAs", Henry Mintzberg
    .
    .
    .
    #38 DETC Schools - just for amusement and killing time. Not a serious MBA
     
  10. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    So Kalos,

    how marketable is an MBA without the AACSB accred? In your opinion, is it worth the time and cost vs. a MSM?
     
  11. Kalos

    Kalos member

    I need to stress here - an unfortunate truth. You can get just as "good" an MBA education in schools 51 through 200 and you can in the top 50. But, your degree won't be worth as much as one of the "name" schools. This is because an MBA program has two related but separate functions. There is
    1) Learning
    2) Screening/Selection
    Top recruiting companies know the best people, with the highest potential, go to the name schools. Fair or not - this is where companies go to fill their top slots. Low level MBA schools are recruited mostly to fill low-level staff positions - and the humiliation of a low-ranked MBA dogs the holder for the rest of his career. No recruiter expects to find any talent at Aspen University.

    Below the top "name" schools, AACSB is the next "gate". You're assumed to have a decent education and good judgment if you select to attend an AACSB school. The GMAT exam serves as a screen for applicants at most schools. It's unfortunate to some extent that AACSB is dominant - because AACSB stresses research, publishing and academics perhaps more than is necessary for MBA studies.

    So, AACSB is pretty much necessary - unless the grad is from an exotic name school from Europe or Asia. ACBSP accreditation is respectable - but significantly devalued in the marketplace compared to AACSB.

    A DETC MBA is so degrading, holders should consider it hiding it like a mis-spent youth. Definitely a DETC MBA should be removed for any serious resume. Frame the diploma and keep it in the rec room next to the stuffed moosehead maybe.

    MBA are betting so numerous and debased that some recruiters actually scout for alternatives in industry slots - the MSIT (Industrial Management) or MMSc or MSM. Definitely these degrees - if from good schools - are better and more cost-effective than non-AACSB MBAs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2006
  12. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    okay, all DETC venom aside..........what you are saying (trying to comprehend here) is that an MSM would be preferable to an MBA if the MBA was NOT from an AACSB (or the like) school, even though both degrees be equal otherwise?

    For instance an MBA from Troy State University (now Troy University) would not be as desirable as an MSM from the same school?
     
  13. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Re: MBA Ranking Criteria

    Hey, that's EXACTLY what I'll do! I'll forget about getting an MBA from Aspen University or Columbia Southern University, and tell any of my potential future employers "yeah, I was gonna get my MBA, but instead I read "The Complete Idiot's Guide to MBA Basics!"

    I'm sure that'll look great on my resume.
     
  14. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Students of DETC-accredited programs

    "Famous alumni of DETC institutions include industrialist Walter Chrysler, Senators Barry Goldwater and Stuart Symington, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, WWI war hero Captain Eddie Rickenbacker, cartoonist Charles Schultz, South African President Nelson Mandella, playwright Clifford Odetts, and millions of other men, women and children. Dozens of entertainers, ice skating stars and tennis professionals earned their high school diplomas from DETC institutions."

    Nobody is saying (well, at least I'm not) that DETC accreditation is equal to RA, but those who do study at DETC-accredited schools aren't exactly losers and idiots.

    There are many reasons why one would chose to study at an institution that is not RA. Cost, convenience, and the availability of a program not found at other schools are just some of those reasons. Many HR managers couldn't even tell you the difference between NA or RA. These arguments exist only in offices with elitist attitudes (where I wouldn't want to work anyway) and on message boards like this one.
     
  15. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    It's legit and fairly well respected - but it IS DETC (NA).

    Capella, which is RA, accepts it's credits towards it's programs, and I imagine others do also. As I understand Excelsiors policy (not the generate as much cash as possible one the credit transfer one), if three RA schools accept the credits, they will too.

    Disclaimer: I have a Masters from ISIM - and while at AllState and Raytheon, it served me well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2006
  16. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Troy State MBA vs MSM

    I think this is a point where reasonable people can disagree. If I had to do it over again, I would get an MSEM (Engineering Management) degree rather than an MBA.

    One problem is that MSEM/MSM/MSIT/MSM degrees are generally not program accredited. ABET - for example - accredits few - if any - Master's degrees. NAIT doesn't accredit MSIT degrees. So, the quality of the Master's degree has to be inferred from the accredited undergraduate degrees in the same school. Some schools use the Master's as a cash cow and don't take care to offer the same quality they do in their (accredited) undergraduate programs. Reputation of these "non-accredited" programs counts for a lot.

    I looked at Troy State - www.troy.edu/catalogs/0506grad/G4COB.htm. It appears the Troy MBA is ACBSP-accredited, but there's no mention of program accreditation for the MSM. So, it's a close call between Troy's MBA and MSM. I guess the MBA looks better from a Marketing/Job Prospects point of view, but maybe there's something in the MSM program that's important for a candidate's specific career plans.
     
  17. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Aspen Univ. MBA

    LOL! And true! The $64 question is:

    Will people assume he is describing them?

    Or will the people he IS describing assume he must be talking about someone else?

    Historical note: While attending jump school about a thousand years ago, the West Point juniors in my class told me the unofficial motto of the school was: "If the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum." ;)
     
  18. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Kalos.......I didn't realize that Troy was professionally accredited. So let's take another example.


    A non-professionally accredited MSM vs. a non-professionally MBA.


    How about Amberton University MBA vs. MSM..........Amberton is RA, but not professionally accredited such as AACSB to my knowledge.

    Since the MSM doesn't offer AACSB, does it look better to the potential employer than an MBA in which professional accreditation is offered but not gained?
     
  19. Kalos

    Kalos member

    At this point the details get too fine to resolve. You need to plug in the numbers and information that are important to you.
    I will say that Amberton is not a "name" school, and any MBA/MSM degree from there is not likely to be worth much outside the immediate Dallas area.
     
  20. Pugman

    Pugman New Member

    "If the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum."

    That one made me laugh out loud...thanks "If the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum."
     

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