Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

simon · Jun 3, 2006

undergraduate and professional graduate education while men are showing a trend for decrease enrollment in undergraduate and professional graduate programs.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3920998.html

Although this article notes that women continue to lag behind men in terms of salaries they have made major strides in many professional fields (with the exception of the physical sciences). On the other hand, men's attendence in undergraduate and professional graduate programs has significantly declined.

These findings contradict one poster's conclusion that purports the desperate plight of women in certain areas of education due to "intimidation" by the "dominant" male "geeks. Women are in no way in such a inferior position. In fact in a number of professional graduate programs men are the ones who are "underrepresented" and who appear to need assistance.

Michael Nunn · Jun 3, 2006

Originally posted by simon
On the other hand, men's attendence in undergraduate and professional graduate programs has significantly declined.
Click to expand...

*attendance*

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3920998.html
Click to expand...

Interesting article. Thanks for the link.

simon · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by Michael Nunn

*attendance*

Thanks for the interesting article and for providing us with the link.
Click to expand...

*snake in the grass* (is the spelling correct Michael?)

simon · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by Michael Nunn

*attendance*

Interesting article. Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

*Petty* (rings a bell Michael?)

JoAnnP38 · Jun 3, 2006

Originally posted by simon
These findings contradict one poster's conclusion that purports the desperate plight of women in certain areas of education due to "intimidation" by the "dominant" male "geeks. Women are in no way in such a inferior position. In fact in a number of professional graduate programs men are the ones who are "underrepresented" and who appear to need assistance.
Click to expand...

I believe that our recent discussions centered around the number of women in IT and why their representation is *decreasing*. Based on the article posted, what is interesting about the increase of women in so many other fields is that this just highlights the urgency of trying to figure out what is turning women away from IT and Computer Science -- fields where so much of today's innovation is occuring.

simon · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by JoAnnP38

I believe that our recent discussions centered around the number of women in IT and why their representation is *decreasing*. Based on the article posted, what is interesting about the increase of women in so many other fields is that this just highlights the urgency of trying to figure out what is turning women away from IT and Computer Science -- fields where so much of today's innovation is occuring.
Click to expand...

In any discussions relating to "decreasing" numbers of students in undergraduate and professional graduate educational programs it is important to be more inclusive of ALL ethnic and gender groups. The current overemphasis on the needs of ANY special interest groups to the exclusion of others is polarizing and unproductive.

In addition to discussing the current very positive gains of women in undergraduate and professional degree programs, the federal government study also focuses on the serious decline of men in these same programs. In any corrective actions taken to bolster the numbers of women in IT and Computer Science, equal attention needs to be placed on understanding the root causes for the significant decline of men in undergraduate and graduate programs as well as possible interventions to augment their level of participation.

JoAnnP38 · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by simon
In any discussions relating to "decreasing" numbers of students in undergraduate and professional graduate educational programs it is important to be more inclusive of ALL ethnic and gender groups. The current overemphasis on the needs of ANY special interest groups to the exclusion of others is polarizing and unproductive.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer not to talk about education program in general and concerntrate on why women's number in IT is decreasing. Looking at a segment that comprises 50+% of the population and which is terribly under represented would appear to be a cost effective manner in which to increase the overall participation in IT. The cost-benefit of increase women's enrollments intuitively seems much higher than increasing men's enrollment because of the assumption that something must be driving them away. Whatever that is, it is an important focus for increasing IT enrollment.

simon · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by JoAnnP38

JoAnnp38: I'd prefer not to talk about education program in general and concerntrate on why women's number in IT is decreasing.

SIMON: Fine.

JoAnnp38:Looking at a segment that comprises 50+% of the population and which is terribly under represented would appear to be a cost effective manner in which to increase the overall participation in IT.

SIMON: Not a simple matter. Yes it would be great if a larger number of women were to pursue IT careers. However, there are a multitude of complex reasons why women are underrepresented in IT that cannot solely be explained by sophomoric theories such as their being "intimidated" or threatened by mainstream "traditional" "geek" males. By conducting an open and honest assessment of this issue, without engaging in politically correct revisionistic hypothesizing, perhaps we may gain a clearer understanding of the dynamics underlying womens' underrepresentation in IT.

JoAnnp38:The cost-benefit of increase women's enrollments intuitively seems much higher than increasing men's enrollment because of the assumption that something must be driving them away. Whatever that is, it is an important focus for increasing IT enrollment.

SIMON: We need to be careful engaging in reductionistic thinking that precludes our true understanding of the underlying factors that may be contributing to womens low numbers in IT. In fact the "something" you mention above may be "many" things that "must be driving them away". Through research, not intuitive hunches, will we be able to elucidate the actual basis for this problem and possible ways of finding solutions.

In addition your conclusion that "the cost-benefit of increase womens' enrollment" should be given priority to men's decline in enrollment is quite frankly not cost benefit. As the federal government study revealed there is a significant decline in mens' attendance in undergraduate and professional degree programs and this problem needs to be addressed on par with womens' underrepresentation in IT. No more, no less.
Click to expand...

JoAnnP38 · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by simon

Originally posted by JoAnnP38
In addition your conclusion that "the cost-benefit of increase womens' enrollment" should be given priority to men's decline in enrollment is quite frankly not cost benefit. As the federal government study revealed there is a significant decline in mens' attendance in undergraduate and professional degree programs and this problem needs to be addressed on par with womens' underrepresentation in IT. No more, no less.
Click to expand...

Once again, my concern is strictly for education that supports my profession. When a specific trend shows relative strength or weakness against the average, its something we need to investigate further. While the average male/female college student ratio is around 45/55%, this ratio is about 85/15% in IT. For the good of my profession, its an important question to understand why this disparity exists. Informal research has led the ACM and Computer Science departments all over the country to institute programs to address the problem of women ignoring Computer Science. At Florida State, the department has sponsored a group called Women in Computer Science for a few years now. This group is intended to give women role models as well as support to keep them from being isolated causing them to drop out of the program. FSU is also creating programs directed at girls in high school to introduce the profession in a non-geeky manner to fight a common stereo-type of a computer scientist. While I'm sure departments would welcome a formal scientific study of the phenomena driving women away, they can't just wait for these studies to be conducted. Administrations have to currently manage against surveys and exit interviews to determine what is causing this exodus of women from the IT field. We can debate this issue forever; however, its obvious that the ACM and CS departments across the country percieve this as a problem that needs to be addressed and so it is.

Women have much better representation in other scientific fields, so many including myself believe that our profession could be better served by courting talented women who are choosing other fields instead of IT. Its simply a matter of having all of our pistons firing. Currently there is no trend that shows more men leaving IT programs than women. However, that doesn't mean men are being ignored. With the reduction of Computer Science enrollment across the board since the dot com bust, CS departments of been trying hard to recruit all students. However, the lack of qualified women IT professionals in the workforce is a problem for business. Education is responding to this problem. Whether that problem is real or not depends on one's outlook, business acumen and/or sense of social justice.
Click to expand...

simon · Jun 3, 2006

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

Originally posted by JoAnnP38

Once again, my concern is strictly for education that supports my profession. When a specific trend shows relative strength or weakness against the average, its something we need to investigate further. While the average male/female college student ratio is around 45/55%, this ratio is about 85/15% in IT. For the good of my profession, its an important question to understand why this disparity exists. Informal research has led the ACM and Computer Science departments all over the country to institute programs to address the problem of women ignoring Computer Science. At Florida State, the department has sponsored a group called Women in Computer Science for a few years now. This group is intended to give women role models as well as support to keep them from being isolated causing them to drop out of the program. FSU is also creating programs directed at girls in high school to introduce the profession in a non-geeky manner to fight a common stereo-type of a computer scientist. While I'm sure departments would welcome a formal scientific study of the phenomena driving women away, they can't just wait for these studies to be conducted. Administrations have to currently manage against surveys and exit interviews to determine what is causing this exodus of women from the IT field. We can debate this issue forever; however, its obvious that the ACM and CS departments across the country percieve this as a problem that needs to be addressed and so it is.

Women have much better representation in other scientific fields, so many including myself believe that our profession could be better served by courting talented women who are choosing other fields instead of IT. Its simply a matter of having all of our pistons firing. Currently there is no trend that shows more men leaving IT programs than women. However, that doesn't mean men are being ignored. With the reduction of Computer Science enrollment across the board since the dot com bust, CS departments of been trying hard to recruit all students. However, the lack of qualified women IT professionals in the workforce is a problem for business. Education is responding to this problem. Whether that problem is real or not depends on one's outlook, business acumen and/or sense of social justice.
Click to expand...

It is important to note that this thread is not about the low representation of women in IT but is much broader in context addressing womens' significant gains in undergraduate and professional graduate school, salary issues as well as lagging enrollment of men in universities.

I appreciate the intensity of your feelings regarding women in IT. However, because you wish to specifically discuss issues relating to your profession I would suggest that you start a thread specifically addressing this subject to your hearts content.

Log in or Sign up

Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

simon New Member

Michael Nunn New Member

simon New Member

simon New Member

JoAnnP38 Member

simon New Member

JoAnnP38 Member

simon New Member

JoAnnP38 Member

simon New Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Federal Report reveals women making significant gains in attendence in...

simon New Member

Michael Nunn New Member

simon New Member

simon New Member

JoAnnP38 Member

simon New Member

JoAnnP38 Member

simon New Member

JoAnnP38 Member

simon New Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches