Do Brick & Mortar schools respect online degrees?

I just finished perusing a thread from last December regarding the respect, or lack thereof, that online degrees are accorded. The question that I would like to pose for your consideration is this: are online graduate degrees or coursework taken seriously by hiring committees at contemporary CCs? I posted an earlier question about dual grad degrees giving one a leg up when applying for CC teaching positions but I failed to mention that my second MA would have to be obtained online, probably through AMU (assuming NCS grants accreditation). Does this change the equation radically and place me at a distinct disadvantage?

 

While I have never participated in a community college faculty hiring decision, I can say that I would think twice about hiring someone to teach in a classroom when they haven't experienced a classroom as a student.

 

Clarification

Oops...I didn't make myself clear. My undergrad and grad degrees were obtained through 'traditional' means (as was my teaching credential). I am considering adding additional grad coursework and/or another MA through 'nontraditional' methods. What say ye? Viable?

 

..you should elaborate a bit further as to why you would think twice about it - not leave it open ended...

 

You might want to check out the "Job-Seeking Experiences" forum at the Chronicle of Higher Education. http://chronicle.com/forums/

They have plenty of people go post about their own job seeking experiences at the CC level.

From what I can gather through my own job seeking at some of the local CCs near my home CCs care that you have the minimum requirements obviously. After that, most were looking for actual teaching at the CC level. Other types of teaching helps, but if it is at a CC it's all the better for you.

 

Thanks

Thanks for the Chronicle link. I've posted there also. I have taught at the secondary level as well as some four college level courses as an adjunct but I figured I'd need to tack on a few more successful semesters before I could be a really viable candidate.

 

I'm assuming that the OP wanted to teach in a B&M setting and has no experience as a student in the B&M world.

My point is that the online experience is quite different from the classroom experience. With a B & M degree, an instructor would have portfolio of classroom experiences, albeit as a student, and would have some sense of the dynamics of a college classroom.

In my opinion, an individual without any physical classroom experience would be at a distinct disadvantage leading a B&M class.

However, I would consider other evidence of teaching ability in the instructor's background.

 

Quite a few "schools" (including Harvard University) has an online degree program.

As stated above, it is not much of an issue anymore-

Some folks that "missed out" on the DL option consider this path of poorer quality. With that, they seemed to have"missed the bus" on DL, or so they think.

For example: I lurk over at a RN (nursing) student website on occasion. Some posters are down right obsessed with proving Excelsior DL nursing students are sub-par. The fact of the matter is that the Excelsior RN students take and PASS the VERY SAME licensing exam the B&M students take. IMHO, that is really childish and closed minded-

It is all the same

 

No two schools are the same (B&M, online, or otherwise). It would be silly to believe all online programs are inferior to all B&M programs. It would be just as silly to believe all online programs are just as good as all B&M programs. In my opinion, all comparisons should be made on a school by school basis.

I personally wouldn't want a nurse (or any other healthcare professional) that received the majority of their training at a distance. Just a personal preference...

 

Why? The R.N students at Excelsior do the practical/clinical training that is required for their license.

There are thousands of Excelsior RN's working in hospitals as R.N's. You may have had one work with you and not even known it..

Online M.D, now that is a whole other ball game- And if asked, yes I believe an online M.D progran would be inferior to a B&M program. (personally)

 

Online Degrees

No one should respect "online degrees"!
Often I hear people tell me they got their degree online.

Respectable schools may teach classes online, via closed circuit television, CD, in a classroom, etc., but the degree those institutions award are not considered "online degrees".

Online learning is just a platform for instruction. When people say they got their degree online, a red flag pops up in most everyone's mind about the credibility of such a degree.

It would be better stated that you earned your degree from, insert name of the college. through distant learning.

 

SACS seems to think distance learning is gaining general acceptance.

In their policy statement on transfer of academic credit, they cite "the proliferation of distance learning programs and common acceptance of their legitimacy" as a reason that transfer of credit is a public policy issue.
http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/transfer%20credit.pdf

They also provide a set of standards regarding distance learning programs in general at http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/081705/distance%20education.pdf

Sure there are some people who believe "online degrees" are subpar. There are also people who believe degrees from state/public universities are subpar.

What amazes me are the number of people who think distance learning is some new internet related concept.

 

What about someone who did 3/4 of their credits via traditional on campus classes but finished up via online credits? Just wondering where your personal cutoff would be...

 

I think that criteria is a weak one because most persons, even those who may get all their post high school degrees online know well what it is to be in a classroom. How about whether the individual knows his stuff and is a good communicator? That's the bottom line. Both of those together creates a wonderful learning experience at a bare minimum.

 

I would be ok with this situation unless the traditional stuff was decades ago.

My position is that there are certain expectations and norms of behavior in a classroom setting that either don't exist or are different in a DL setting. Someone who's entire higher education experience is DL would likely have a distorted view of their role and what it is like to be in a classroom.

In my humble opinion, four years in a high school classroom combined with a DL bachelors and masters do not fully inform an individual on the role and expectations of a college instructor face-to-face with his/her students in the classroom.

Someone with a B&M degree has at least seen it done by several instructors and has some idea of "how to " and more importantly, "how not to" conduct a class.

I did say in my original post that I would "think twice" about hiring an instructor who's credentials are solely from the DL world. In other words, I would not reject a candidate out-of-hand on that basis, but would consider anything in their background that compensates for not having been in a classroom before as a student or instuctor.

 

Most of us pursuing DL are far removed from our teen and young adult years. Effective teaching, especially at the CC level, requires dealing with youth. This requires familiarity with aspects of current youth culture.

Even DL-based teacher certification programs require flesh-and-blood practica. DL programs - no matter how rigorous - can't prepare one for the real-world sources of friction present between instructors and students.

 

People have made essentially the same argument that those confined to academe can't possibly understand or prepare students for the real-world.

Reality is that more and more coursework is going to be done via DL in one form or another. Even face-to-face classes are now expanding to include significant DL components.

It's just a matter of time before hiring authorities come to realize that some of those butt-in-the-seat classes are simply not cost effective and must be replaced. They're also beginning to see that DL offerings are essential to their programs if they want to compete and they expect new faculty who can plan and deliver those courses in addition to the classroom lecture.

Those who have a good background in DL are set to walk into those jobs.

 

This has already happened, but that's not the original poster's intent. When posters ask about the acceptability of DL credentials to B&M institutions, the underlying statement is: "I want a full-time job with benefits". No matter how prevalent DL becomes, that level of compensation is a long ways off; there's already a glut of DL instructors, and excess labor supply depresses compensation.

That is no doubt true; however, savings in overhead won't be passed as pay & benefit increases to DL instructors, no matter how experienced.

Consequently, competition for full-time, butt-in-seats positions (positions that offer higher compensation and benefits packages than DL adjunct positions) will continue to be fierce. I'm sorry to say, those positions will exclude those of us with DL-based credentials.

For full-time positions carrying having attended and served as a TA in full-time, resident programs will become more of a discriminator than it already is. Bet the mortgage on it.

If anything, I expect to see Universities *outsource* their DL development and delivery to third-party, for-profit DL specialists, ala University Alliance. Picture a model where UoP closes up its retail, direct-to-student (business to consumer) operations and goes to a B2B, wholesale model, perhaps specializing in delivering vocational and lower level baccalaureate courses under contract to public institutions. You can just imagine how low the pay will be under these conditions.

 

Very good point. A PhD, MBA, MA from a DL school normally opens the door to teach at an online school but salaries are lower than McDonald's wages due to the saturation of online teachers with online PhDs, MBAs, etc.

If you want to secure a job with benefits, forget about the online PhDs, MAs and look for a profession with licensing requirements that would protect you from outsourcing or oversaturation.

I think that a CPA, CMA, PE, CFA, RN, real estate valuation, Home inspection, Electrician license is worth a lot more than any online PhD in the long term.

The overflood of quick online MBAs, PhDs, DBAs will saturate the market in no time.

I also have experienced that problems of finding suitable employment in CCs, Universites with benefits. The trend seems to be to hire cheap contract labour with no benefits and high education credentials.