Difference between MBA and Mgmt Sc

Maybe this has been discussed many a times, but I wasn't able to locate any threads in the forum. What is the difference between an MBA in Technology and Masters in Sc in Mgmt Sc ( with technology ) eg. http://mscionline.uwaterloo.ca/index.php?

 

Your answer is in the link:

Note that accounting, finance, marketing and operations management are covered in a SINGLE course.

This appears to be a degree for techies that want to know as little as possible about the business processes that are implemented in their information systems.

edited to correct spelling

 

In academia, the MBA is normally seen as the "Mickey Mouse" degree while the M.Sc as the "real degree". MBAs are mainly bachelors degree repackaged as masters degree while the M.Sc is meant for people that are looking for advanced level courses.

In industry, the MBA or M.Sc are equal in regard but in academia the M.Sc carries more weight. The M.Sc is a better option if you are looking for a PhD at a top school.

University of Waterloo is one of the best Universities in Canada. Notice that this degree is not "totally online" as it requires proctored examinations.

 

I think they are seen for what they are - different animals altogether. Not unlike the idea that calling a zebra a striped horse works for those who have no need to understand that there's more to it than that.

Either can be used as a teaching qualification and either can be used as a vocational qualification. It just depends on what you plan to do with it.

Usually, the MBA is clearly a generalist degree preparing one to understand the concepts of the business environment as they relate to each other. An MA or MSc in a functional area is a specialist degree preparing one to understand the concepts of a specific area of business in finest detail.

Adding a specific area of study to an MBA (such as technology) may or may not provide the specialized study that the MA/MSc would.

That's all, different animals. The question then is, do you want to study how all of the functions generally interact and impact each other or how one function is best handled?

When comparing two (or more) degree programs, it's best to examine the curriculum side-by-side to understand the differences and similarities. Simply using the degree title MBA, MA, MSc as a guide provides nothing more than a generalization.

It's possible for an MSc in business to have the same requirements as some other school's MBA. When sorting them out, try putting the degree requirements into a spreadsheet and see how they actually compare.

 

The Waterloo Management of Technology program is a Master of Management Sciences (MMSc) program an is not completely "online".

All examinations must be written at the University of Waterloo or at proctored sites throughout the Greater Toronto Area.

In the eyes of academia, an MBA is a "master's degree" that is not at master's level. An MSc, MEng, MA, MASc is a continuation of undergraduate training at a HIGHER level.

An MBA covers the same courses (or less) than a typical BBA, BCom or other undergraduate business degree.

 

U of Waterloo is an excellent University, but there are reasons other than wanting to offer a "real" Masters in Management that made Waterloo go the MMSc route. Waterloo is a very young university. Its strength is Engineering and related sciences. It still doesn't have a full School of Business (It has a "Department of Management" in Engineering, and a separate Department of Accounting). Waterloo for many years cooperated with a pre-existing University a few blocks away with an established School of Business which does offer a respectable MBA (Wilferd Laurier [ex Waterloo Lutheran]). So, Wilferd Laurier was left to supply the MBA, and Waterloo leveraged its Engineering expertise into a MMSc. It's more an accident of history rather than an attempt to offer a "real" Master's in Business.

 

Re: Re: Difference between MBA and Mgmt Sc

I can't speak for what happens at non-AACSB-accredited institutions, but I can assure you, with the exception of 500-level leveling courses, the courses are NOT the same.

At my institution, highly qualified (high gpa and gmat) undergraduate seniors are allowed to enroll in MBA courses. Occasionally, a small number of these students occasionally assume that there's no difference and make the mistake of carrying what would be a full load (15 semester hours) of undergraduate courses with a couple of graduate courses in the mix. It's quite amusing to watch after telling them it's a bad idea and having them respond that "they can handle it."

 

Actually, the department is called the Department of Management Sciences and is located in the Faculty of Engineering. For a time, the degree being offered by Management Sciences was a MASc (which is still available for thesis-route), then became an MEng for a while, then, evenutally an MMSc. Whatever the degree title, the program remained the same - Management Sciences (Management of Technology Option).

Waterloo also offers a PhD in Management Sciences. This program will NOT accept applicants with MBA degrees.

 

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MBA's are designed for people who don't have an academic background in business or management. MBA courses are mainly introductory and broad enough to provide an good overview of the subject.

A typical 1 year full-time MBA cannot possibly cover the intricacies of the entire marketing, accounting or finance profession that would normally take an undergraduate degree four years to cover (OK... three if you take away the liberal courses and fillers).

The "thinking" and independent work aspect of an MBA may be superior to an undergraduate degree, but I think that the MBA gets it benefit from the fact that most students have significant exeperience and are able to apply the knowledge right away.

 

Yes, it's the Department of Management Sciences, in the Faculty of Engineering.

Can you cite a source for this MBA prohibition ? www.mansci.uwaterloo.ca/grad/phd/phdadmissions.php?id=4 lists the admission requirement for the PhD as:

• *Master's degree with at least an A-average and evidence of ability to pursue independent research
  *Calculus, Linear Algebra, Probability and Statistics, Applied Regression Analysis.

I live down the road from U of Waterloo. If I stay in Canada, I would consider either the PhD in Management Sciences or the ADMI Consortium MEng in Design and Manufacturing. Are you familiar with these programs ?

 

Yes, I am very familiar with these programs. I graduated from the Master's in Management Sciences several years ago. In a phone conversation with the director of the program, he stated that MBA's were not acceptable preparation for the PhD in Management Sciences and no MBA's have ever been admitted to the PhD program.

 

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This is absolutely true based on my experiences in the UMass program.

Again true. As I'm simultaneously teaching undergraduate courses (some in business) and taking MBA courses, I can say MBA faculty do not coddle in the manner that's demanded of undergrad faculty for job security. A certain level of competence--if not knowledge--is assumed. We're expected to learn more and learn it faster than undergrad. Of course, that's what you'd expect. If undergraduate work rated a "1" on the spectrum of 1-10 and law school rated a "10" (not that it does in the abstract), I'd place MBA studies at "7".

This may be the case for admissions into PhD programs, but there are many faculty jobs out there that specifically list the MBA as a qualification. There's a strong perception, as expressed in job ads for business faculty positions at small teaching colleges--and I've scanned a few hundred (maybe thousands) over the last couple years--that the MBA is a perfectly acceptable qualification, it's not typically distinguished from the MSM or MS in a business discipline. In fact, it's almost never distinguished. Under "qualifications", the typical ad at a small teaching college will read: "PhD/DBA preferred, MBA/MS acceptable". And often, if it's a very small college or a CC, they won't even mention the doctorate and will ask specifically for an "MBA or Masters in related field".

I have two FT business colleagues at my small teaching college. "C" has an MS in a business discipline, "S" has an MBA. I think S, as well as S and C's dean, "J", would be astonished to hear that his work is not on masters level. That's not the perception at all here. If it is, I've never detected a hint of that attitude; I've never heard word of it my conversations with all of the above, in reference to hiring decisions, or in any faculty meetings.

Just my experience.

 

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There is no question that an MBA is a master's degree, however, there are some differences between the typical MBA and an MA/MSc/MEng/MASc.

MBA's are "standalone" qualifications that can be acquired without specific training in business. If someone holds a BA in History, Geography, Political Science, etc., they can pursue an MBA. So an MBA would be a "first qualification" in business administration for them (as is typical).

MA/MSc/MEng/MASc degrees usually require previous academic training in the field that the MA/MSc/MEng/MASc is sought, with small exceptions. A person looking for an MSc in Mathematics will require a BSc in Mathematics to get in. Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, like a person looking for an MEng in Mechanical Engineering might be OK with an BSc in Applied Physics.

I have always had a problem with MBA's being considered "master's degrees" since they do not generally build "mastery" from an undergraduate degree. I understand that executives want the "master's" degree title if they already hold undergraduate degrees, but it is an odd quirk in academia.

MBA's shoud have been called something like Postgraduate Diplomas or something like that, but I suppose that would not have sat very well with people paying 20-100K on a one or two-year program!

Hence, my problem continues with someone with a BA in Geography and an MBA, wanting to pursue a PhD in Business Administration. I personally don't think there is enough preparation to be called a "Doctor" in Business Administration with 1 to 3 years of actually coursework in Business Administration. A simple comparison is as follows:

BSc in Physics (4 years)
MSc in Physics (2 years)
PhD in Physics (4 years)

Total: 10 years of training in Physics

BA in Geography (4 years)
MBA (1-2 years)
PhD in Business Administration (4 years)

Total: 5-6 years of training in Business Administration

It just doesn't add up.

 

Scott:

I pretty much agree with what you're saying. It's a quirk in a sense, but really it's just an apples/oranges thing. The MBA is a professional masters as opposed to being a graduate degree per se (of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know). It's a lot like my other "advanced" degree, the "doctor" of jurisprudence--which is, of course, a first degree, and used to be a bachelor's. But since a four year bachelors is required for admission to study law in the U.S., and since lawyers think they deserve doctorate pay when they're in academia, they call it a doctorate.

However, both MBA and JD are taught/were taught on a higher level than my undergrad work--the JD on a much higher level--so there's something to be said for referring to them as more than just another bachelors. But you're right, my masters, should I receive it, will bear no real resemblance to my wife's MS in Math. She has a far greater mastery of her field than I will of mine.

But one point: while there are exceptions, it's not generally a hard-and-fast rule that you must possess an undergrad degree in a given discipline to gain admittance to a PhD program in that field. Of course, there are faculty and administrators who would never consider one without such a degree for admittance, but they are the exceptions, so far as I know. The MBA is not unique in this respect.

Also, regarding your analogy, it may be that there are certain fields that just require more years to develop some mastery than others. This is an obvious point, but physics in your example just requires more sweat to get a grasp upon than business administration.

 

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In some indian schools, the MBA degree is given as a post graduate diploma for the very same reason you mention.

MBA's are nothing more than undergraduates repackaged as master's degrees. However, the level of the courses tend to be higher than undergraduate level degrees.

In the case of your example, it can be worst as one can get into an PhD in business with a master's of geography if one makes up for 30 credits in business that is less than an MBA. Also, not all the PhDs in business are 4 years programs as you have few that can be completed in two years full time. So you might have a PhD in business with only 3 years of full time training in business. Some people in this forum have mentioned that a PhD in business at NCU can be completed in two years if done full time.

I teach Information Systems and it is not uncommon to see PhDs in Information Systems that don't know how to program in a computer language or have no idea about computer networks as many PhDs programs in business allow an Information Systems specialization based on a dissertation. One can do a dissertation in the economics of IS in a certain country or strategy of IS applied to certain industy and get a PhD in IS with no technical background and still called "PhD in IS.

It is not uncommon to see job ads that are looking for PhDs in IS that know how to program as this basic assumption might not be the case for all the PhDs in IS.

 

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True. I have seen some Ph.D. in Business Administration programs that do not call for a specific master's in business, but a quantity of credits in the field that can be taken as part of the Ph.D. This is disturbing.

Even worse... some thesis-only Ph.D.'s in Business Administration might mean that the Ph.D.-holder only has 1 year of coursework in business administration subjects. For example:

BA in Geography (4 years)
MBA (1 year)
PhD in Business Administration (thesis only)

It can be done....

 

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In most cases, the MBA is NOT a one-year program except for students with significant undergraduate preparation in business.

Quality MBA programs require leveling courses for thoses without prior prepartion in business than can take up to a year to complete, depending on the school. The programs I'm familiar with have required 500-level courses that are either not counted toward a 33-36-semseter hour MBA, or that count toward a 48-60 hour MBA but are waived for those with appropriate undergraduate courses.

I can't speak for programs outside of the US, but this is the way that it works for most business schools in this country.

A BBA degree does not come close to covering the "intricacies of the entire marketing, accounting or finance profession" even if one majors in one of those disciplines.

That being said, an MBA concentration usually does not come close to the topical coverage of an undergraduate major in a discipline. The MBA is a general, braod perspective degree. A four course concentration in a single discipline doesn't change that. In many states, an MBA in accounting would not in and of itself meet the educational requirement for the CPA exam.

The MS in Accounting or Finance are more appropriate if one wants a comprehensive, discipline-based graduate degree in business. These degrees are closer in nature to a liberal arts or sciences Masters.

 

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I guess I'm looking at things from a Canadian perspective. Canadian undergraduate programs like a BBA or BCom have significant specialisation that covers the entire four years of the program. I believe that American undergraduate degrees are only specialised in the last two years.

 

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I didn't know that about Canadian programs. As for the U.S., you're right, only a bit more than half of my UG credits were specialized in the area of my major, advertising/design. It didn't really work out to just the last two years, as most here in the states take major-specific classes and general ed classes throughout, but that's just hair-splitting, and your main point holds.