Excelsior College made a huge mistake....

Hello all,

I know its been a while since I've posted here. Life has been absolutely insane for me lately with numerous home and general life issues...along with struggles in school. But I could really use the help of fellow students now. I am presently dealing with one of the most difficult ethical challenges I have ever faced academicly. I could really use your help on it - especially from those folks who are (or were at one time) Excelsior College students, or if you're an educator:

As most of you might recall who have read posts from me before, I have been working with EC to finish my degree. I started with them back in August 05', took their "IL" course over the summer and passed it, and began working on my last set of credits (15.28 semester hours) - as posted on my September summary evaluation from them. The last two quarters of work I did (from Sept. - Mar....Fall/Winter) in quarter-based form (24 quarter credits) equaled 16.08 semester credits....effectively completing my degree. I was to discover later (recently in fact) that I was wrong about that conclusion - as was EC in their competance in saying so sooner rather than later. Every advisor I spoke with during this span of months had reassured me that I would be finished after getting the last 15.28 sem. credits done (according to my intial evaluation), and I trusted that they were effectively monitoring my record for any problems. The whole time I was working on my degree through them the basic refrain was "Shawn, you're going to be fine if you finish these courses", or "You'll be finished at the end of Winter quarter" (which just ended this past March).

Ok...now that we're all up to speed....

After finsihing my last quarter of work in mid March and according to what I had been told about being finished after that quarter was done and was merely waiting for conferral, I did the next logical step: I sent out invitations to friends and family for my commencement. I had also decided to go on a vacation to Seattle (mostly to visit UW for graduate schools options) and Vancouver, BC for a week (just simply an extension of my trip) - April 12-19th (with locked-in hotel prices and dates).

So its the 12th - the day of my vacation departure, and I'm having breakfast with a friend at a restaurant (after getting my rental car to make the trip) and I get a phone call from an EC advisor. I let it go to voice mail intially, but eventually returned it. When I do call back, the EC advisor (the name is not important here) tells me that (by all accounts its the "11th-hour" now) my degree is NOT finished because they discovered I had duplicative credit, and they were unable to confer my degree because of it. (I had taken an intro Psychology course at a semester based school which received a low grade, and then took a 3-course sequence of the same general material at a quarter based school as part of my then fresh start toward my AS Degree, and did much better with those courses. But apparently they do not award double credit for the same course of comparable material - something I did not know at the time), and something they failed to notice had happened and tell me about sooner.

They had nearly 7-8 months to tell me about this little glitch so I could have fixed it by signing up for Spring quarter maybe before it was too late. Instead (though I realize it was not done so much as being on purpose than just a huge oversight), they tell me about the error AFTER I cancel all financial support from the hosting university where I was taking classes, AND get into a position where signing up for a class now for this current quarter through the university here in Oregon to transfer the credit is nearly impossible now. Its the end of the 3rd week of a 10 week quarter - to say nothing of my having inquired to confirm my degree completion track countless times, all of which was met with the general above refrains. My feedback about the issue went to the college's Ombudsman, to the director of Advising, and then to the Dean of Liberal Arts. All of whom have profusely and repeatedly aplogized (which does not help, does not change the situation and I only find it insulting under the circumstances). But in any event EC is unable to confer my degree because of the "missing" credit. At the present time, I am now 2.26 semester credits away from graduating - effectively one semester class of 3 credits. They suggested I send them course syllabi on the two courses in question, but they don't hold much help on it changing the acceptance of the denied credit as both courses are traditionally foundational and comparitively similar in content.

The way this seems to work with them, is they make one big intiual evaluation (which is where the mistake would have been discovered if they were paying attention). Then for every subsequent transcript you send in, they only evaluate those new and recent credits. Then at the end of all the work you are supposed to have completed - according to the initial evaluation, they do a final in-depth review (which is where the "11th-hour" mistake was actually found, from September)!

I chose EC to avoid some red tape from Portland State. EC on the other hand....ultimately said no about the condition of my transcript on this issue of the duplication. Were it not for this situation, I'd be done now. On a previous instance I had caught some errors they made regarding Philosophy courses they never included. I discovered them, I told them, and then they fixed it. Had I not cuaght it, I'd still be in school now (aside form this issue).

The Dean, and as well as the Advising Director suggests that I should be willing to do one of the following to rectify the current problem (which as I will reiterate later, feels like I'm cleaning up their mess):

A): Take a CLEP test, and get up to 6 credits for it. Ok, I have never taken a clep test, and have no idea of my success chances in passing such a test. (They recommended something called "History & Social Sciences" (?)). I've read the mixed review of posts here on CLEP, but can't seem to find any solid feeling on one's ability to be successful with it. I never took ACTs or SATs...I started at a community college because I never took college level prep courses in high school.

B): Take an EC Exam. Ok, now this one is even funnier....one chance at one test, covering 15 weeks worth of material - all done by independent study and at your own pace!? Gun please....

C): Take an EC course for 3 credits - WebCT or CD-ROM. Feasible, and the one I'm leaning toward...despite my feelings of injustice on the situation. I do have a few courses in mind. One course the EC Dean for Liberal Arts suggested was "Writing for the Professions", or one of the relgion courses they offer. They're checking to make sure these courses won't duplicate other courses I've already taken. I wonder how it will take them.

As a concession, the fee for any of these options would be waived, and they are willing to negotiate my final graduation fee. But it goes beyond that in my mind. For me, I see myself coming along and fixing their mistake for them - after I jumped through every hoop, every task, and did everything they told me to do. Now this? For the nearly $1,000 I coughed up for this enrollment fee with them, you'd think there would be a greater level of observance in how things are evaluated and monitored - and not done at the last minute. They are willing to let me go to commencement in July (but right now it feels more like a slap in the face than something to really be proud of - I won't be finished with my degree by then under the current conditions). I'm also faced with the internal humilation of how this fiasco was handled, and of friends and family discovering that I'm not really done. How do I trust EC now? Would any of you? I struggle with this question.

If I took them up on option "C", the course I select would start in May ( or rather I would select the course which starts in May - whichever one I get approval for) and it would end in August. The commencement is in July. So, I attend commencement in July as originally planned....finish my course in August (having started it in May) and get my degree 1-2 months later? I feel like my head has separated from my body!

On the flip side of the coin, I realize they have regulations to uphold, and they have "laws" to abide by. I just don't know what the answer is to the puzzle. An injustice has been done...is it mine to fix, ethically, appropriately? I can see their side, and they can (I think) see mine. I don't want to clean up their mess, and they can't graduate me "as is" because the rule of no duplicative credit is based apparently on some regulation dealing with accredidation (which I have not yet independently confirmed with the regional agency covering New York). If they can't do anything more than what they've already offered, should I save myself and then deal with the injustice from them later or simply walk away? I am just at a loss for the choice on which to act.

This is where I need your help. I don't hate EC or anyone on their staff for this mess. I realize they have rules to follow - and even if they could bend them, I doubt they would. But the level of incomptence drives me nuts (even if it was caught at the '11th-hour"), and it seems they are willing to ignore what I consider to be a contract - that being the intial evaluation...despite their mistake. It would set what I am sure they would conclude as an unhealthy precedent. Has anyone else ever gone through this mess? Is EC guilty of having done this more than once? Do any of you have any suggestions or input that may be helpful. A situation like this might be a warning bell for other potential students. Registration for the May online classes ends April 27th, so I need as much feedback as possible before then. Thank you all for your input in advance.

- Shawn

 

:::Sorry about the typos...it was late when I wrote this message. Also I am expressing pain, anger, sadness, and hurt in this message...not hatred or rage.

I wish no ill will on EC or their staff...just to get that right. I am just faced with the worst ethical puzzle I've ever experienced, and I don't know who should solve it - them or me.

Phrase corrected from option 'C": "I wonder how long it will take them".

- Shawn

 

As an Excelsior College graduate, I have nothing but positive feedback about the school; the staff was very helpful. Upon receiving my official evaluation, I designed my own plan. I selected the following types of exams to complete their requirements: Excelsior exams, Clep exams, and Dantes exams. I was able to complete 62 credits by exam, in under 6 months, while working 55 hours a week, and helping to take care of a family of 5. The idea of taking exams may seem daunting; however, it can be done.

A suggestion for an easy exam would be the Excelsior College Human Resources Management exam. I purchased the Idiots Guide to Human Resources Management, studied the guide for a week, and passed the exam with an A.

Good luck!

 

Re: Re: Excelsior College made a huge mistake....

Shawn,

I know you are nervous about the CLEP option. But it really is your best option for earning a quick 3 or more credits.

I don't know which courses you have already taken, but here are a few of what I think are the easiest CLEP exams, they are pass/fail (no need to ace them), and are worth 3 or more credits:

Intro to Sociology
Analyzing & Interpreting Literature
Information Systems & Computer Applications
Intro to Educational Psychology

All of the above can be passed VERY EASILY with just a few days preparation. I'm very serious!

You could have your final three credits by this time next week.

Please let me know if you decide you want to go this route and I, and I'm sure others, will do everything possible to help you prepare.

You could probably pass Intro to Educational Psychology based entirely on what you already learned in your Intro to Psych course. But I also have additional study resources I could send you that will push you over the pass mark.

I would HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY, recommend you consider this option Shawn.

Let me know what you decide,
Beholdweb

 

Hey cool.. another Oregonian... I am a Trimet driver so you had better behave on the bus.

Go for option 3. There are tons and tons and 100s and 1000s of people who are missing just a few credits that will not be completed in time for graduation. They all go through the ceremony, they all get a degree holder. Then when their final grade is given by the final class their degree is sent to them. My wife did this. It is rather normal.

Sorry about how the situation came about though.

 

This is the only complaint I had about EC...during my undergrad, I experienced the same thing. They tried to pull the same B-S with me too. What they advised me to do was to take an Astronomy course from the DistancLearn cataloge. In this case it was an online course from UNI...which was actually a 800 level course which I was going to get undergrad credit for, which was ok by me.

After completing it, getting the grade of a "B", and have the transcript sent over, the accepted it and was in process of conferring my degree. All good news right? Wrong!

An advisor called me and told me that they could not accept the course because it was an 800 level course and it needed to be an undergrad course...not a grad course. I told them what was the difference? It was an upper level science course?

I got upset and started raising three kinds of hell.

The problem with EC is, especially for the undergraduate students is that one doesn't have an assigned advisor - it is whomever answers the phone and all they do is read your file.
Too many chiefs in the tribe is the issue with them!!!

I disputed the claim and went to program/dept chair about my dispute and complaint. Told them that it was EC advisors whom told me to take the class and it would be accepted and applied to my degree program and I could graduate. I had kept a journal of all the advisors I had spoken to, dates, times, names, advise/information given...sent it to them, they reviewed - and within 4 days I recieved a call and a letter indicating they were indeed wrong in advising me to take the class, however the class was a science class of upper level, and they will go ahead and apply it and get me to graduate.

This is EC's only downfall, is that you will never be able to talk to the same advisor throught the duration of completing your degree...they need to change this - because it is really a pain in the butt when dealing with so many people.

This is one reason I withdrew from the MLS program...and went somewhere else - the other was their constant increase in tuition rates.

 

Re: Re: Re: Excelsior College made a huge mistake....

Hello "Beholdweb",

Well, the intro to Sociology course is out...I took 3 courses in an intro sequence for that subject too. The Educational Psychology course seems doable...I just hope I'm not faced with another glitch later where they say "oh no...its too similar to other work you've done" - even after getting approval for it.

Its amazing how many EC advisors I've spoken with about my transcript, and how they all said all was well...until the very last minute (nearly). There is a first for everything I suppose.

What resources might you have for this course that you can suggest if I chose this option...and do I contact EC to arrange the test, or a Prometric(?) test center? I think I've seen a website called CollegeBoard.com...listing information on various academic tests. Is that the place to start?

Thanks for your feedback.

- Shawn

 

Taking CLEP tests

The first step to taking a CLEP test is finding a test center. Look here:

http://apps.collegeboard.com/cbsearch_clep/searchCLEPTestCenter.jsp
CLEP Test Center Locator

Then call your closest test center and see what you need to do to schedule a test there. My local community college has a testing center that allows walk-in testing anytime during library hours.

Elizabeth

 

Hello,

Thanks. And yes, I took the bus to PSU for three years...Portland CC for 3.5 years before that. Trimet was my school bus....sigh.

Anyway, I am tempted by this option because it is structured and "the known" or "well worn path" to me. But its basicly 15 weeks of my life, as opposed to taking a CLEP test and hoping I pass - despite the apparently overwhelming sense of confidence from others who think I could pass one of the easy CLEPs (which seems not outside of the rhealm of posssibility).

Lots to consider...and quickly if I want to do this effectively and efficiently.

- Shawn

 

Re: Charter Oak Rocks!

Given COSC's much lower enrollment than Excelsior (something like 1/20th) this isn't surprising.

I will say that I only dealt with 3 people total at Excelsior, which is pretty good. Most of the time it was with a single person.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Re: Charter Oak Rocks!

Adding my comments here...I tried to keep a list of names of those EC advisors I had spoken to (one of whom I'd often ask for by name). In the end...this advisor (along with all the others) all said that I was on the right track. So in this instance its not a matter of hearing different things from different people, its their WAY OF MONITORING A STUDENTS TRANSCRIPT that seems to be the problem. Had this error been caught back in September, we would not be here now discussing this problem...or at least I would not be.

- Shawn

 

Re: Re: Charter Oak Rocks!

Adding my comments here...I tried to keep a list of names of those EC advisors I had spoken to (one of whom I'd often ask for by name since she was one of the intial advisors who helped me first when I started with EC). In the end...this advisor (along with all the others) all said that I was on the right track.

So in this instance its not a matter of hearing different things from different people, its their WAY OF MONITORING A STUDENT'S TRANSCRIPT that seems to be the problem. They only review new work...the intial evaluation seems more cursory. Had this error been caught back in September, we would not be here now discussing this problem...or at least I would not be.

- Shawn

 

Does anyone know what the policy position is on this kind of issue from the area accrediting body (the Commission on Higher Education of the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools), objectively?

I've thought about legal solutions too...(talk about raising three kinds of hell). But I don't want to take this to a dark place and don't know if it would be worth it. At the same time, they screwed up and I'm paying for it. Whatever concession they are willing to make (or able to make)...its no where near going to solve my problem that they created. But I understand its their attempt at trying to make up for the error...(which in my mind the solution would be to let me keep the 2.26 credits in the first place but I know thats a dream). But if this has happened more than just once to more than just me, that is really nuts.

- Shawn

 

Re: Re: Re: Charter Oak Rocks!

<<Sorry for the duplication in the post...how ironic>>.

- Shawn

 

Re: Re: Excelsior College made a huge mistake....

Oh boy! Sorry to hear about all your trouble Shawn. You probably could make a complaint with the accreditor, and the Department of Education for that State. If EC knows this, they may soften up a bit.

I would probably consider taking a CLEP and knocking out some quick credit. Worse case scenario, if you fail, take another CLEP. Analyzing and Interpreting Lit is pretty easy, and cheap.

I hear what you are trying to say though. It's fine for EC to say, "Gee we are sorry, but you still have to jump through this hoop". That does not solve your problem.

I wish you the best and hang in there!


Abner

 

PhiloScholar

I have sent you a PM! Please check it when you have a minute!

Thanks,
Beholdweb

 

It's not an EC issue at all -- I've seen this happen at graduation time at every college I've ever attended. You apply for graduation a couple months before grad and without fail, someone doesn't make it through the degree audit because of duplicate credit, some old bad grade, some advisor said this or that, "I thought Eng 101 and Eng 320 were the same", etc...

Almost always, they participate in the graduation ceremony and get their diploma later.

I'd go with CLEP option. Analyzing Lit is an easy 6 hours. Social Science and History isn't all that hard for 6. Just be careful that whatever test you take doesn't duplicate some other credit you already have.