Montana

Further top the sudden appearance of Claremont College, what are Montana’s uni approval laws like?
A bit Hawaiish?

CFr

 

I got a surprisingly candid letter from a state regulator 3 or 4 months ago saying, in effect, "Yes we have appropriate laws, but we've never enforced them. There has never been a need. But perhaps we need to take a look at this situation again."

Perhaps, indeed.

 

I contacted the Secretary of State's office in Montana about this school. They were very clear that their responsibility was to issue a business licence to the school, which they did. The regulation of the school's activities fell to the education department. My e-mail to them regarding this school went unanswered.

It is clear that anyone can start a university in Montana and award degrees. It is up to the inert board of regents to stop you.

Rich Douglas

 

Kind of interpolating between those remarks, I'd say that since Montana has had no need for enforcement, that most likely no enforcement mechanism even exists there.

It wouldn't be cost-effective to have a crack team of regulators sitting and doing nothing for years on end, waiting to jump into action if a degree mill appears.

So people in the Education Department would have to be reassigned from current jobs that probably already have established constituencies. And if addressing this takes litigation, the state attorneys would have to be brought in. These people probably already have a horrendous caseload and don't need ten-year CPU-style legal wars just to shut down one school.

My point is that state governments are not high performance vehicles that turn on a dime.

So probably we will see Montana apparently doing nothing as the mills proliferate there, then suddenly acting forcefully once the problem reaches critical dimensions, just as Lousiana, South Dakota and Hawaii have done before them.

 

Here is the latest from Montan'a Board of Regents, on nonaccredited schools in the state - go to: http://www.montana.edu/wwwbor/NonaccreditedGuide.htm
Earon

 

The law is not so harsh; it's the Board of Regents that has set a policy to recognize only the six regional associations. I think this policy could be easily challenged; it's obviously not being enforced.

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Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

Extremely tight agency policy (not law) on recognition of degrees, combined with little or no actual regulating of the granting thereof? Does sound like the before-mentioned lack-of-resources problem: with little or no means to actually look into programs, it's easier to recognize only those already vetted by someone else. Doesn't explain how come ONLY the RA's and not such as DETC ...

 

The Board of Regents' main responsibility is with the state educational system. It could be that they desired that these schools only recognize RA degrees. That doesn't necessarily extend to legal recognition and use of non-RA degrees.

Another possibility is that whoever did this didn't know what they were doing. Don't look for complicated answers when simple incompetence explains things.

"That's not writing, that's just typing."
Truman Capote

Rich Douglas

 

Here's the text with my comments:

This specifically applies to the issuance of degrees and honors inside Montana, not the possession and use in Montana of honors granted elsewhere. So it is a much less ambitious law than Oregon's.

It also makes provision for the issuance of degrees and honors in Montana upon prior approval of the regents.
 

List of the six regional accreditors is omitted.

So really all this thing is saying is that if a school wants to set up in Montana, then it will have to obtain Montana approval from that state's regents unless it is already regionally accredited.

I don't find that draconian in the least. It's a looser regulation than California has, where even regionally accredited schools from outside WASC must have state approval in order to set up California branch campuses. U. of Phoenix and Touro University International are CA-approved for that reason.

The big questions:

1. How difficult is it to get the approval of the Montana regents? Could a mill get this approval?

2. Are the mills cropping up in Montana operating with Montana approval or are they simply ignoring the regents?

3. What kind of enforcement mechanism exists to prosecute violators of this section? What priority is that enforcement given?

 

So, if I take a vacation in Montana, I don't have to be concerned about my hotel door being knocked down and being hauled off to jail for having a Trinity C&U doctorate?

Russell

 

Naw. Horse stealin', cattle rustlin', driving under 100 mph on the freeway, that kind of stuff.

Rich Douglas, married to Paula from Montana

 

The Unibomber and the Freemen didn't move to Montana for nothing.

You might get your door kicked down, but it ain't gonna be the Sheriff.

A few years ago Montana had a contest for a state marketing slogan. Unfortunately it happened around the time Ted (a distant educator if there ever was one) was caught by the FBI in his tiny mountain cabin.

Two entries I liked:

Montana! You're Wanted Up Here!

Montana! At Least Our Cows Are Sane!

 

Thanks for the great Montana story. Here's my Montana story (It's not as good as yours but it's the only one I have.)

I was looking for a fully enclosed trailer. I called up this fellow that took out an ad in the newspaper. It was priced lower than the others but, he assured me it was a fully enclosed trailer. I even asked him if it had a roof and he said yes. I drove way over to his place and he shows it to me. It didn't have a roof and the sides were just flimsy quarter inch plywood without support beams.

I took one look and said, "That's not an enclosed trailer." and started to leave.

He physically grabs me and says, "All's ya gots ta do is puts a roof on it! I's askin' a very fair price, right?"

I must admit that I was more than a little bothered and responded, "The price is fair but I cannot use this trailer and I'm not going to buy it."

I start walking away even though the recent immigrant from Montana is still hanging on to me. He begins pleading his case even more desperately, "I had ta buy da trailer 'cause U-Hauls leavin' Montana one-way be way too much money. I cun slap a roof on dis thing in Jiffy. It's just da trailer you needs."

At this point I was really starting to worry for my own physical safety but luckily I got to my truck and managed to drive away with him yelling and still trying to sell me the trailer.

But after thinking about my little encounter I really could appreciate why U-Haul needed to charge more money for trailers leaving Montana than trailers coming in.

 

What is to be found at the following website http://www.montana.edu/wwwbor/Malawi.pdf
indicates that Montana may have been taking such a look as John refers to. At the above URL the reader will find a letter to Montana officials from the Malawi High Commissioner based in Ottawa, Canada.

The letter is written in support of Columbia Commonwealth University's existence in Montana. I dug it up while doing a Yahoo search. Enjoy the reading. There are some spelling mistakes, obviously occurring from the scanning process by Montana officials. The letter is not found directly on the Montana sight, but can be found 'accidentally' by doing a Yahoo search using 'Columbia Commonwealth University'.
Earon http://www.altcpualumni.org

 

So why on earth should representatives of the government of Malawi, in Canada or elsewhere, be interested in the ability of this particular distance-learning institution to stay in Montana?

I hope that the letter's convoluted argument, which I didn't attempt to completely unravel, is to some extent owed by the author's limited English ability. In any case, from what I can understand of it, it seems to represent one more effort by a distance-learning institution or degree mill to confuse jurisdictions and claim a right to exist by existing everywhere and nowhere all at once. It uses the confusion as to its nationality to gain "recognition" from one source and then use that "recognition" to claim a right to exist in another place where it supposedly resided all along.

 

The Malawian letter is written by the High Commissioner in Canada, His Excellency Macalpine Bywell Mlotho, who signs his name as Doctor Mlotho.

My searching suggests that while Doctor Mlotho has been in the Malawian diplomatic corps for quite a while, it is only recently that he has changed, in references, from Mister to Doctor.

You don't suppose . . . oh, no, perish the thought.

 

As has already been posted, Montana state law says that in order to grant degrees in Montana, a school must have the approval of the Montana regents. The only exception is for schools already having regional accreditation.

Since 'Columbia Commonwealth University' does not have regional accreditation, it must therefore have Montana approval before it can legally operate.

Given that fact, how is Malawi "accreditation" even relevant to its status?

The only function I can see for it is as supporting documentation in a submission to the regents for approval. It certainly doesn't substitute for Montana approval as RA would.

 

As I understand it from reading some posts by John Bear and from some correspondence with CCU president Les Carr, Ph.D. (vanderbilt), Montana recently began to take a second look at its set criteria for schools operating within its borders. As you know, John bear has rendered some mild criticism at Montana, stating that its regulations are lax. I am told that the renewed interest by Montana in its own regulations is partly generated by the interest of some dentistry schools which were hoping to locate there. I can't get into that topic because I didn't give it much attention when it was explained to me. I presume from the content of the Malawi letter that, as part of its revisiting its criteria, Montana was taking a second look at CCU. It would seem that the Malawi letter was in support of CCU. Of course this is speculation on my part, as is most of what is put forward by posters at this site.
Earon http://www.altcpualumni.org
- Currently doing the H-W MBA courses

 

I can’t trust this letter.
I personally find it very hard to believe that the Malawi government is out there actively defending the integrity of Columbia Commonwealth University.

CFr