Bachelors in a Career Discipline VS Bachelors in a core Subject

I have an interesting question.
What would be the arguments in favor of getting a Bachelors in a Core subject (like math, english, history) VS getting a bachelors in a career discipline like engineering, accounting, computers etc.

I ask this cause my wife has a degree in English lit and thinks I should go for a Bachelors in Math. Whereas I feel I need career training since I want a different job.

I called the math department at my local university and even he said.. why bother getting a math degree, just get an engineering degree, or CS degree or something with lots of math in it.

Arguments?

 

I have this discussion with friends here often. We study music.

In music land there is the BA, BM, and BME at the undergrad level.

The BA is a general liberal arts degree with wide study of music as the major.

The BM (Bach of Music) is a professional degree with the area of studied a specialized function of music (ie: BM piano performance, BM music history, BM composition, etc...)

The BME (Bachelor of Music Ed) is a teaching degree and prepares teachers of either studio, instrumental, or choral music.

As for doing the job of a musician, you can either play/sing or you can't -- who cares if Madona a BA/BM/BME/MA/ MM/DMA or nothing at all?

Then, the purpose of the degree is either to prepare for a specific profession (composer) or to gain a general higher education.

If you want a general higher education that prepares you for a wide range of oppertunities but nothing specific. A degree that "makes your brain a better place to live", then the BA in an academic area is the place to head.

If you want to teach in the public schools then you'll need a degree suitable to your state. Probably akin to music-land's BME.

If you want to prepare for a very specific career, then you will need the specialized degree. While one can become a CPA with a BA/BSc instead of a B.Acc. - the latter may make life a touch easier.

On the other hand, what if you change your mind later? What is easier to adapt or change?

With a general BA, you can expect a specialized undergrad to cost you another 2 years of additional study.

With a specialized undergrad (such as a BBA) or a teaching degree you might expect to only need to add one year of additional study to get a general BA (since most of the core academic requirements will have been met already).

There are alot of jobs that require "a degree" but don't care in what. For those, any degree will do. There are many jobs that require a specific degree. If you want one of those you need that specific degree.

What about grad school? If you want a M Eng then you probably need to get yourself a B Eng first. If you want an MA in math, that B Eng may not be sufficient to get you in without some pre-req undergrad courses.

If you want an MBA, well many MBA programs won't care what your undergrad is in. An MFA is about the same -- they just care about your portfolio.

There are many areas in grad study that won't put as much emphasis on the area of your undergrad. A friend of mine is in an MS Instructional Technology with a BA in music.

The real answer then requires you to answer two questions:
1) what is your purpose (personal) in getting this degree?
2)What do you plan to use it for?

Then too, what's available to you? I'd much rather have an MMus next -- there's not one here and those online are MMus (Ed) or too costly for me. So, I'm getting an MBA next.

 

I had to read your post like 5 times to get the just of it. Sometimes it takes a bit for things to sink in.


If you want a general higher education that prepares you for a wide range of oppertunities but nothing specific. A degree that "makes your brain a better place to live", then the BA in an academic area is the place to head.

I think this statement sums up best why my wife thinks I should get the math degree. I can't decide what I want to study so she says study something you enjoy like math. I of course want a specific training type degree.. just can't decide which path to take.

 

This is not an apple to apple comparison.

as CoachTurner already that depends on how you answer some questions.

Each of these professional disciplines are highly specialised in nature. You don't want to switch one to another once you've chosen anyone, without spending another big effort.

Moreover, you may want to explore which aspects of maths you are interested.

Traditional engineering disciplines, e.g. civil engg, mech engg... spends a lot of time on calculus....and knowledge of physics too...

Computer science, as I said, abstract algebra, discrete maths and some linear algebra would be important... although some calculus maybe involved, depending on what electives you want to take. However, the amount of maths really depends on the curriculum design and electives available....and... sadly, the maths component of CS is important, it is still far from using it in the real world...

Quantitative finance, actuarial science spend a lot of time with the statistics....

Also, there are some schools offering operational research as a major... although application focused, it's not as "professional" as others do...

But unfortunately there are still a number of areas of maths have very limited usage.

 

People who get core subject degrees (history, English) are the ones who end up with the job across from campus asking "Would you like fries with that?" ... and end up having to go to ITT Tech (or some other working adult university) years later to get a "useful" degree like business or IT.

 

ted... sarcasm? or experience?

 

This is SUCH a difficult question!

My own B.A. was in something called "Humane Studies" and therefore qualified me neither for a profession nor for graduate work. So I did the only thing I could do; I went to law school!

On the other hand, it WAS a good background for law and it was good enough to qualify me for a Navy commission.

I had a clerk a while ago who studied biology before going to law school. Hard science gave him an orderly way of thinking that was impressive but a science degree often tends to limit the student's exposure to science only. Not necessarily a good thing, I don't think.

I think that the bottom line has to be, "study what interests you" mixed with "study what will qualify you for your chosen work". Don't get an engineering degree unless you WANT to be an engineer!

 

My first job out of college with my history degree was running a drill press in a steel fabrication shop for three years for $5 and then $6 and finally $7 an hour. When that job came to an end, I went to City University by night school to get two MBA degrees while passing out literature for a private computer school (two years) and flipping burgers for Mac Construction Company, aka McDucks (two months). I had hoped to pull my head out of my posterior and actually get a real job or, better yet, start my own business, but I just didn't have a clue and my Dad wasn't much for advice or guidance and personal leadership, so I let Dad talk me out of taking a job as a life insurance salesman. Since my MBA graduation, I have done some occasional history and business tutoring for four years and worked a total of about two years here and there at various fast food and convenience store jobs. Other than that, in high school and college, I did work in Dad's Arabian horse business for about five years. I also dropped out of four master's programs in history and a Master of Divinity program (and an associate's in accounting) in the 22 years since college graduation and, quite frankly, I wonder whether I might be ADD. I'm presently on disability for manic-depression. If I did take a job, one of the following would have to happen: (a) I would have to duck underneath some pathetic little $800-some a month figure to protect my Social Security Disability and, more to the point, my MediCare/MedicAid; or (b) it would have to have very good insurance, particularly prescription insurance; or (c) it could, I suppose, just pay me so sinfully much money that $1500 a month for meds for manic-depression, diabetes, kidney problems, and cholesterol sort of looks like spare change (and, of course, that figure will go up once we figure out what kind of prostate meds I should be on and it will also go up even more so if I find a new wife or new girlfriend who wants me to try Viagra or something similar so I can maybe lose my virginity at age 44 or so and maybe even actually become a Daddy). All that and I live in the smallest and most economically depressed of all 88 counties in an old rustbelt state and I also have transportation problems. My lack of gainful employment goes a long way to explaining how I racked up 3300 posts here in my first year at degreeinfo.

 

I work in the Telecommunications industry and I have a number of co-workers with degree's in Math. A friend of mine with a PhD in Computer Science likes to say that his first 3 degrees were in Math. It startled me to find the large number of people with graduate degree's in music programming (apparently the same part of the brain is used), since I played seven instruments as a child (err....not at the same time).
I would stay away from Math Eduacation degree's unless you want to teach math to children or from Liberal Arts programs (this is from someone with a BA in Computer Science) and stick to advanced mathematics courses and computer science courses. From my experience, with a math degree you will always be in demand. Even those with Graduate degrees in CS often lament that they wish they had taken more advanced mathematics courses.
I encourage everyone to not be rigid with career choices related to your degree. If you had majored in philosophy, you wouldn't expect to become wealthy as a philosopher (very few opportunities), but you could do well as a writer. Just because you major in math doesn't mean you need to because either a teacher or an accuary. You can work on anything from astronomy to zoology including business. Math majors are the scientists version of the liberal arts degree.
Best of luck to you,

 

Ted

Wow

repeat

Wow

I'm very sorry to hear about your health problems, and the Social Security dilema has you stuck.
Do you do any consulting work in business or does the SS limit keep you from doing so? It appears that you were not given very good career advice early on, but I agree you have a very complex career today.
Manic depression is nothing to joke about. I'm glad you are able to get meds. My younger brother of 37 is battling stomache cancer and that isn't helping his career very much either.

 

You can't go wrong with a degree in Math. The University of Illinois - Springfield offers an online BA in Mathematical Sciences:

http://www.online.uillinois.edu/catalog/ProgramDetail.asp?ProgramID=541

Good luck!

- Tom

 

Re: Re: Bachelors in a Career Discipline VS Bachelors in a core Subject

The UIS programme looks like an applied math programme, with relative less amount in pure maths. However, this is a general applied math programme, not focusing its use in any particular industry.

So again it is a question on any particular area of interest.

Some profession, e.g. quantitative finance, actuary, can be entered via graduate entry...for these, a first degree in maths would be very useful.

However, for some, like engineering, would be better off start from the first degree.

 

Re: Ted

The way I read it consulting income would be treated the same as income from a job: under $800 a month to keep MediCare/MedicAid or make enough to buy my own health insurance (where I will take a bath on premiums) or make so sinfully much money that the $1500 price tag on current meds (more than that after we figure out about prostate meds and, when I find a wife/girlfriend, erectile dysfunction meds) just seems like chump change. So, it's still the same trap. Being on a government handout sucks because the liberals don't want you to become an economic success who no longer needs the government handouts (more people on government handouts is more votes for the Demos) and the conservatives would like to kick you off the government handouts when you're still too totally broke to succeed (fewer people on government handouts is less taxes and more money in Repub pockets). Good heavens, when will both sides of the aisle realize that it's probably best to help those who need it while they need it but also teach them how to succeed so they no longer need the help ... give 'em a fish for the day for now, but simultaneously teach 'em how to fish?

 

I called the math department at my local university and even he said.. why bother getting a math degree, just get an engineering degree, or CS degree or something with lots of math in it.

Arguments?

----------------

Did this really happen? Sounds like you talked to the wrong person IMO...

Greg

 

Perhaps we could pose the problem in a different way that might help you see better the core issue.

Let's say you're deciding between vehicles instead of degree programs. Once you step onto the showroom floor a debate between your head and heart begins. There are the sports cars after which the heart chases and from which practicality flees. They are fun both to drive and say that you own.

Then there are the vehicles which common sense demands you consider: luxury sedans, passenger vans and, for the scope of this imperfect analogy, even dump trucks and tankers. Completely utilitarian and utterly unsexy.

Which one will you buy? Well, if you earn your daily bread by the sweat of the brow like so many of us, you'll need something with which you can find work. If, in this analogy, you live in a town with lots of towing and hauling work, then you might be best served by a wrecker or dump truck. If you're to entertain several business clients, a two-seater won't make the cut. You might well find a job which simply requires you have basic transportation, but the lack of utility you present to that employer will typically be reflected in lack of compensation that he offers you.

You can, of course, buy your dream car toy right out of high school and repent later with the purchase of a step van. That will be at a cost of additional years out of your short life with car payments and studying owner's manuals.

Now, not to say that you can't be the CEO who drives the Testa Rossa. But he or she probably had to do time in an eighteen-wheeler when all they had to offer an employer was a fresh face and a short resume.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you even like Math? The reason I ask is that most would not consider it the 'path of least resistance'...and may pose a challege if you do not yet have your undergraduate degree (that is, perhaps its prudent to get an easier 'generic' degree via 'testing out').

That said, you could always take the calculus sequence (usually 2-3 courses) to see if you like it. If so, it's a good preliminary for more advanced work that would apply towards your math degree (calculus is usually a prerequisite). If not, it transfers nicely into most engineering or IT programs.

Point being, perhaps you could 'test the waters' with Calculus and see if it's a good fit.

Hope this helps!

Greg

 

I do like math. Took college algebra and really enjoyed it. Went on to a term of calculus and really enjoyed it as well. My only problem with calculus was when we started dealing with unreal zeros I had a lot of trouble understanding the concept. Thus I failed my final, but had passed with 100% everything else. Of course I freeze up a lot when taking tests anyway.

 

If you do like math, you may want to take a look here. (

Regarding negative zeros et. all., I was never really great at math - but I liked it. And that has made all the difference (I got lots of Bs in graduate school).

Oddly enough, Actuarial Science has been ranked #1 job in the nation (by WSJ) for several years...but seems largely neglected for some reason.

No clue why (but my girlfriend could tell you - math is definately not sexy). ;-)

IMO definately something to consider if you are considering a career change and like Math.

Hope this helps.

Greg

 

Xarick:

The calculus was arguably designed to deal with division by zero. And I absolutely agree with you; it's a concept that doesn't bear thinking about. The weird thing is, it actually WORKS!

The best way to handle infintesimals and limits is to grit your teeth and forge ahead! "Plug and chug," that's what I always say, anyway!