The "Oregon List" Expands Again

As of 8-28-01 some 80 institutions have made the Oregon List. I was somewhat saddened, as I thought for sure that American College would be on the list. I guess those $199 Ph.D.'s are selling quite well.

Russell

 

www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

 

Interesting. I see MIGS wording has been revised.

 

Thanks for the update, Russell. I see a few I hadn't noticed previously:

• University of Northern Washington (Hawaii)
  (Darn! I always thought Hawaii was [bigger]SOUTH[/bigger] of Washington...)
• Zenith University (Hawaii) - Is that where the TV's are made?

(I know, someone will tell me that they're both legitimate but unaccredited...)

Mark

 

Sorry! Another UBB Code that doesn't work here...

Mark

 

I found it quite interesting that the Oregon site recently removed the allegation that Columbia Pacific had been operating in Hawaii. Some time ago an associate of mine began informing Alan Contreras that CPU had never ever operated out of Hawaii. It took a few months and 2+ letters to get the error of fact considered and acted upon by Alan. Of course ... this leads me to wonder a bit about the credibility of what is
on the Oregon site. One would think that this Oregon department would have a research team.
Earon

 

Kudos Earon,

You are right on the money on this one. You see I was about posting similar “alert” on the forum. I tell you This Allan Contreras Guy is very interesting. For a Guy who makes decisions that affects lives and carriers, He needs more schooling. I was about asking the Forum Snoopers to see if they can find the” certainly less than wonderful” school that produced him to the academic world.
If you can promise not go public with it, I ‘ll share my private mail (with him) with you.
In a nutshell the so much celebrated Oregon list isn’t all that as far as I am concerned.

Timmy Ade supporting Earon in saying that the Oregon list is over-rated in its importance

 

One thing that I found interesting on the expanded ODA website was this passage from the Oregon Administrative Rules: OAR 583-050-0011

It seems that Mr. Contreras' office is following up on his remarks in his 'Chronicle of Higher Education' interview and is taking a harder line on questioned foreign universities than merely accepting an IHU listing.

 

The great paradox of the US educational system.

How can an institution be approved in California and be banned in Oregon?

CFr

 

Why shouldn't a degree be legal in California but not in Oregon?
Each of the United States is a sovereign entity. As such, each state possesses what are generally termed "police powers". Now, police powers are not merely those connected with law enforcement; rather, each state has the power to enact and enforce its own laws governing the commercial or personal activities of its citizens.
The federal constitution places some limits on the police powers of the states. You will find these limits in the U.S. constitution itself and in various acts of Congress. An example might be that no state may impose a poll tax or literacy test upon its citizens as a prerequisite to voting in federal elections.
I am aware of no federal law regulating approval or licensure of institutions of higher education as such. Therefore, each state has the power to place whatever restrictions and requirements it deems appropriate upon the grant or use of academic degrees and honors within its borders, so long as those requirements do not contravene other rights of citizens contained in the U.S. constitution or that state's own constitution.
Nosborne

 

OK, Timmy;
I give my word that I will not go public with your private email with Alan.
Waiting with baited breath,
Send it to [email protected]
Earon

 

On top of the inadequecies, inconsistincies, and inanities in Mr. Contrarian's list, the silly site hasn't even worked for days. Must be down for construction for some reason.

Gary

 

The site works quite well, however it cannot be viewed with Netscape browsers.

------------------
Bill Gossett

 

Bill Gates strikes again! Thanks for the tip, Bill, but I wonder why it worked for me in the not too distant past with my Netscape? Why would Alan Contreras or anyone want to lock out non-Microshaft browsers? Windblows!

Gary

 

Would you please explain what is inadaquate, inconsistent and (especially) inane about it?

 

Some state-approved schools are on it, others are not. Some "less-than-wonderful" schools are there, others not. It contains degree mills, but misses many others. Defunct schools--who's degrees are in wide use--do not appear. And then there was MIGS....

MIGS went on the board, then disappeared a few days later. It reappeared as a footnote this Spring, noting that the ODA had requested from Mexico verification of the MIGS/CEU relationship and the right to award doctoral degrees. After months of hearing nothing, ODA concluded that MIGS wasn't operating legally in its own state (Florida and/or Texas--no kidding!) and that the CEU is not approved to award doctoral degrees. But the ODA doesn't explain how it came to its conclusions regarding the CEU's doctorates and MIGS's legal/illegal operations.

(MIGS and CEU will tell you that, as a university with an autonomous presidential decree, the CEU already has the authority to add programs, which would include the degrees offered through MIGS. I don't know who to believe anymore.)

It would be helpful if Mr. Contreras would explain these things. It would also help if his office would either do it right or not at all. I would recommend the ODA set criteria for what is and isn't a legal degree in Oregon and stick to it. Compiling the list on an ad hoc basis is hardly convincing.

Rich Douglas

 

Yes, the Oregon regulation is very possibly a constitutional infringement on free speech and association. Its underlying purpose, i.e., to address the mill problem, may be valid, but it is overbroad in its scope. If someone challenges this, I could see a court striking it down.

 

I commend Oregon for attempting to address the problem of degree mills, but like Rich, I wish the specific criteria for determining whether or not a school is acceptable would be placed on their website. The website states that the list is not exhaustive.

Russell

 

The ODA doesn't suggest that their list is exhaustive. It simply represents those schools that have been referred to them and which they have found to not satisfy the Oregon statute.

It doesn't make sense to suggest that no list of schools should be posted unless it is complete. That implies that no listing should ever be made.

Mr. Contreras certainly wasn't alone in not knowing precisely what to make of MIGS. I think that Mr. Contreras handled the situation pretty well.

I am curious about the former issue myself. I think the latter issue is already pretty clear. But the relevant point is that the ODA doesn't post their reasoning on any of the schools on their list. I'm sure that many of those schools have their own partisans as well, and the ODA website is not the place to enter into extended debates with them.

I expect that his office has been talking to lots of people in Tallahassee, Monterrey and in Mexico City. I'd like a report as well. But his website isn't the appropriate venue for that.

I still don't understand what his office hasn't done right.

The ODA is governed by the relevant Oregon statutes. I think that for domestic American institutions the criteria are clear. The problems arise with questionable foreign schools trying to claim equivalency.

That's a problem that all of higher education is faced with. I have seen no clear and consistent answer to the problem of uniform international standards or off-shore accreditation havens proposed yet. Everyone is proceeding ad-hoc on a case-by-case basis.

I just think that it is unfair to call Mr. Contreras "inadaquate", "inconsistent" and "inane" because he has been unable to pull a rabbit from his hat and provide a slick and elegant answer to a puzzle that nobody else on earth has yet been able to solve.

 

On the left side of the main ODA page under "rules". You see a list of OAR (Oregon Administrative Rules) divisions. Here's the relevant division for our purposes:
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_500/OAR_583/583_050.html