ABA and DL law schools

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by cbkent, Feb 25, 2006.

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  1. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    As discussed in previous threads, the ABA has steadfastly rejected the notion of DL law study for bar qualification. It has also held the position that only graduates of ABA approved schools should be permitted to sit for bar exams and become attorneys.

    My personal politics differ markedly from the ABA's on many matters, but when I enrolled in DL law school, I thought I would become a student member to just to receive their mailings and magazine.

    It will come as no surprise that they would not have me. Student membership is limited to students at ABA approved law schools. OK. As a private organization, that's their perogative.

    Imagine my surprise when the postman delivered a large envolope today informing me that, having been admitted to the bar, I was now a member of the ABA! No...not a mere solicitation to join--notification of membership.

    The envelope contained an attractive diploma style membership certificate, login and password for their members only web site, and the promise that their "prestigious" membership card would arrive in a couple weeks.

    My first years dues, they said, were free.

    As we say in the law, "res ipsa loquitur"--the thing speaks for itself.

    Christopher
     
  2. mbaonline

    mbaonline New Member

    Christopher

    Congratulations on passing the bar.

    Where did you get your law degree and which bar did you pass?

    I'm rather new here and I'm curious.
     
  3. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    I graduated from British-American University, and passed the Cailfornia bar. California is the only state which permits DL grads to take the bar exam as their initial qualification.

    Wisconsin permits graduates of DL law schools approved by the state where they are located, and who are admitted to another bar, to sit for their exam.

    A larger number of states will take us after a specified number of years in practice, which varies from state to state.

    Some states will not accept us under any circumstances.
     
  4. 3$bill

    3$bill New Member

    Congratulations, Christopher.

    From all I've heard on this forum you beat some heavy odds. Way to go. Damn! That's great.
     
  5. chydenius

    chydenius New Member

    DC Bar?

    Is it true that, if you are admitted to the bar in any state, membership in the DC bar is more or less automatic?
     
  6. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Indeed - congrats on passing the bar - now that you're a member of the ABA, you can try and fight from the inside! :D
     
  7. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    chydenius--

    DC offers liberal reciprocity for grads of ABA schools.

    If you are a graduate of a non-ABA school, you can sit for the DC bar if you complete 1 year of B & M study at an ABA school, covering the subjects on the exam.

    One BAU grad did just that, and passed.
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    cbkent,

    I know. I know. I pay my annual ABA dues through tightly clenched teeth. But the ABA is the ONLY national lawyers' organization with any real clout at all and they are fighting for some things that are important to me and that I think are important to the profession and to the citizenry as a whole.

    You know why the ABA doesn't want to approve D/L schools. The matriculation/graduate and graduate/Bar success rates are so dismal even from an outfit like Concord which has all the money and expertise in the world.

    So have you decided what to do with your shiny new California law license?
     
  9. Kaboom

    Kaboom New Member

    Solution

    There is a need for an ABA-type DL organization to mirror the ABA. It should gain acceptance from each state, CHEA and the DOE. This is the only to tacke this problem.
     
  10. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    nosborne--

    I know. The odds of a DL matriculant actually becoming a licensed attorney are pretty grim. That's sad. One can't help wonder if more rigorous admissions requirements would improve the odds.

    I decided against taking the WI bar exam, as it is highly unlikely that I will ever practice there, given my problems ambulating on snow and ice, and I just don't feel like taking another bar exam, paying dues, etc.

    I just started the BU legislative drafting DL course. That, along with the rest of my life, will keep me busy until June.
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Many law schools offer one year LLM programs in U.S. Law that are geared toward foreign LLB holders who need a year at an ABA approved school to practice in the U.S. I suppose those programs would be ideal for someone in this situation as well.

    -=Steve=-
     
  12. se94583

    se94583 New Member

    It is pretty insane that the ABA discriminates against DL law students. After all: (1) they gain dues and loyalty credit; and (2) even if the odds are long as to ultimate bar passage, the various publications may help some students to succeed. And DL students are welcome at the higher "associate member" rate.

    Very short-sighted. Eventually, since I see at least one DL school, most likely Concord, being given a shot at accreditation like Fielding got with the APA.

    Caveat: as for me, as a licensed attorney, because of ABA's politics, you couldn't pay me to join.

    But I did find their materials helpful as a law student member.
     
  13. HealthLawyer2B

    HealthLawyer2B New Member

    Congrats

    Congrats Chris,

    You are an inspiration to those following in your foot steps.

    I'm not sure if I will attend a B&M evening law school or a DL Law school when I finish my Master's degree. It will depend upon my situation.

    Perhaps someday, DL law schools will not be looked down upon. However, at this point in life, as long as there are people such as yourself who continue to prove those whom try to discredit DL as an easy way through the back door wrong, it says it can be done through hard work and sheer determination.

    I hope to someday share your joy and achievement.
     
  14. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    HealthLawyer2B--

    I would strongly recommend that you consider the ABA approved evening school route.

    DL law study is difficult, and your practice options are severely limited.

    DL study worked for me, but were it not for my physical challenges (I had a stroke some years ago and do not drive) and other responsibilities, I would have chosen part time study at an ABA school.
     
  15. HealthLawyer2B

    HealthLawyer2B New Member

    Thanks Chris,

    I will only do a DL law school as a last resort. I plan to apply to all evening law schools in my area prior to DL law schools.

    Currently, I will be attending an ABA Law school for a master's degree. Along with my work experience, I hope that as time goes by, I'll be able to have a good chance to get into an evening law school in my area without leaving my current job, time will tell.
     
  16. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    HealthLawyer2B--

    I don't know where you are located, but many of the B & M non-ABA evening schools in California have bar pass rates even more dismal than those of the DL schools.

    If you're going to work that hard, you might as well get an ABA approved JD.
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    More on the D.C. Bar

    cbkent,

    Just to make the D.C. Bar situation complete, you will become eligible for admission without examination (and without any additional education) after completing five years as a lawyer.

    I can't tell from the website www.dcbar.org whether that has to be five years of active practice or merely membership in good standing.
     
  18. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Congrats...

    I feel the ABA is short sighted as well. If a DL JD would allow me to sit for the bar and practice in Texas, I'd enroll in one tomorrow, however Texas has adopted the ABA guidelines and specifically dismiss anyone with a DL degree as being a candidate for the bar.
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    They're not shortsighted. It's just that they're looking out for their own interest rather than for yours. With DL options for law school, many more people can try to become lawyers. More lawyers means less pay for lawyers. They don't want that!

    -=Steve=-
     
  20. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There's jes' no understandin' them Texans

    The weird thing about the Texas Bar is that they WILL accept for examination an out of state lawyer with three years of experience and an unaccredited J.D. UNLESS the degree was earned through "correspondence".

    Most states that go with the ABA standards (i.e. New Jersey) will accept ONLY ABA J.D. holders. Many other states, like New Mexico, will accept ANY J.D. so long as the applicant is licensed in some other state and can show five years of experience. After five years of practice, cbkent will be as welcome in the Land of Enchantment as any other applicant.

    Texas specifically discriminates against D/L degrees. Accreditation really has nothing to do with it. I don't know why.
     

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