recognition of program by state

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by kgh, Jan 6, 2006.

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  1. kgh

    kgh New Member

    I'm not sure if anyone knows the answer.
    I am a special ed. teacher with a M.Ed from N.C. State

    I recently started my Ed.D from Northcentral is it is RA and one of the few online special ed. programs.

    I was talking to my principal today and he said that the state of NC would probaby not recognize it, as there is no residential component. I would therefore not get the raise when I finish. In addition, we have a tuition reimbursement program and he said it would probably not be eligible for that either, since they are looking for schools recognized by SACS. Anyone hear of anything like this? I haven't been able to find any info.
    I will be following up Monday, but thought someone might have some knowledge about this.
     
  2. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Your principal is a moron if he thinks that the Southern Association is the only regional accreditor (or even the only worthwhile RA). Northcentral University www.ncu.edu is indeed accredited by the North Central Association www.ncacihe.org . I'd check out the human resource policy manual at your school. It sounds like your principal doesn't know what he's talking about.
     
  3. jugador

    jugador New Member

    I can't speak to the claim that the program doesn't specifically address NC concerns, but I personally can't see where it matters at that level. Teacher certification might be different, but this isn't teacher certification. As far as the SACS goes, it is, IMO, ridiculous to require SACS accreditation over any other RA accreditation. The regional accrediting agencies reciprocate in their recognition, and any difference between them is negligible, if not downright non-existent. Sounds to me like your principal is really shooting from the hip. I suggest you talk with somebody in the superintendent's office.
     
  4. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Oh! Another thing I just thought about! I first became aware of distance learning in 1992, when I picked up a copy of _Bear's Guide to Non-Traditional College Degrees_, 9th edition (1985) off the discard pile at the City University library. At that time, there was no-one who would accredit a 100% non-residential doctorate. Now, your principal might not have heard, but nowadays, totally non-residential doctorates, such as NCU and TUI, do actually get RA.
     
  5. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    If, when it's all said and done, it really and truly must be Southern Association in order to keep your principal happy, tell him you'll consider Nova Southeastern University's www.nova.edu EdD inb Special Education if he's paying for it.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Okay lawyers on the board, would this be legal and constitutional? I certainly wouldn't think so.
     
  7. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I'm on board with Jimmy on this one. I simply think that your principle is ignorant of the real regulations on this subject. It's also possible that the prospect of having a Doctoral degree holder in the tribe is a bit threatening.
    (please pardon my psychology)
    Jack
     
  8. wmcdonald

    wmcdonald Member

    SACS....

    ...is not the sole recognized agency recognized in North Carolina. RA is the key or we would not be desperately recruiting all over the country to fill the nearly 11,000 teacher shortage. The education community is a bit specific in their requirements sometimes, however and you need to talk to someone in the superintendent's office about their requirements. I think you will probably be OK.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Good thought that may be very, very valid.
     
  10. worthingco

    worthingco New Member

    kgh:

    Based on the information you provide, it appears that your principal has erred in judgment.

    SACS and NCACS are both regional accreditors, recognized by the US Dept of Education, and members of CHEA. SACS is not any better or "superior" to the NCACS or any other regional accreditor for that matter. As one poster noted, the regionals even have reciprocity with one another.

    In my firm view, your employer cannot discriminate based on the type of regional accreditation the University in question holds. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a court in the land that would uphold such a discriminatory practice.

    I think your best course of action, at this point in time, is to visit the Director of your HR dept or the senior decision-makers of your organization and get some clarification. Ask them to put their decision in writing as well. As I said at the very beginning of this post, I think that your principal is mistaken and HR should be more familiar with accreditation in general.

    Good luck to you.
     
  11. simon

    simon New Member


    KGh, I would not disregard what you have been informed by your principle without first reviewing your personnel and benefit manual and speaking with your union representative. This can be a sticky issue. SACS is known as one of the most stringent of all six accrediting agencies and it is very possible that they would'nt accredit NCU, especially without a residency component. Therefore your school system might neither. Therefore it is incumbent upon you to explore this issue very carefully and make a determination based on YOUR school district's policies and not on what appears to be your right to complete a RA degree anywhere you wish.
     
  12. kgh

    kgh New Member

    Union?
    You've got to be kidding. Not here....
    Our HR policy may be written on the back of a napkin somewhere.
    I got money back for my M.Ed a few years ago, but I went to NC State campus. My wife is doing a doctorate at Nova and has been reimbursed; but that is SACS. I know of no one else going the alternative route, particularly for a doctorate. We have few enough teachers even licenced.
    He also made it clear, it was very different for advanced degrees in terms of requirements, as the state is then boosting your pay over and above the normal state salary and they are much stricter on schools they will accept. In other words, an undergrad from a particular school might get me a teaching licence; but the doctorate won't be recognized on the pay grid. (I'm not doing this for the raise, as it is somewhat meager.


    Anyway, the principal already has a doctorate and is urging people to pursue advanced degrees, so its not an issue of envy.

    I believe that the SACS that he was referring to was the division which oversees K-12 - Council on Accreditation and School Improvement (CASI). His contention was that they had strict guidelines for recognizing or accrediting programs and basically dictated to the DPI whether a program was eligible. I have poured over many websites and not found one thing to that effect.

    If this is the case, I will be somewhat annoyed that it is not made clear anywhere, not to mention being stuck with the bill for my first course. However, I think it is possible things will work out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2006
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    kgh:

    -Don't panic.

    -Get it in writing. If the principal won't put his opinion in writing, send a letter to your school board or whoever hires and fires HIM. Note please, I said "hires and fires". Ask for a ruling. Don't mess with apparent authority (i.e. Human Resources); go right to the REAL authority.

    90% chance that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
     
  14. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    perhaps the following info will help,

    Kevin



    http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/employment/upgrade_license.html

    Questions about upgrading your license?
    DPI's Licensure Section is available to answer your questions.
    • If you have a question or need more information, please contact us.
    • Phone: 1-800-577-7994 (callers within North Carolina) or
    919-807-3310 (callers outside North Carolina)

    http://www.ncpublicschools.org/licensure/pdfs2/formv.pdf


    http://www.ncpublicschools.org/employment/approved_education.html



    http://sbepolicy.dpi.state.nc.us/

    Policy Identification
    Priority: Quality Teachers, Administrators, and Staff
    Category: Licensure
    Policy ID Number: QP-A-006
    Policy Title: Policies related to experience/degree credit for salary purp


    6.50 Relevant Master’s Degrees

    The Licensure Section shall authorize salary on the master’s level (or other appropriate) salary schedule for professional educators who hold master’s degrees or advanced degrees that do not lead to a professional educator license if the following criteria are met:

    1) The master’s or higher degree is from a regionally accredited IHE. (The regional accrediting agencies are Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools, New England Association of Schools and Colleges, North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities, Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, and Western Association of Schools and Colleges.)
    2) The master’s or higher degree is in an education or subject area directly related to an existing area of licensure and current teaching assignment or instructional support responsibilities.
    3) The educator’s assignment for the majority (50% or more) of the school day is in the area for which the master’s or higher degree applies.

    6.60 Appeals Panel

    The Department shall establish an Appeals Panel to consider appeals of requests for non-teaching work experience or graduate salary that have not been approved. The panel shall be coordinated by the Licensure Section. Membership of the panel will include LEA Personnel Administrators, higher education faculty, and representatives of professional teacher associations.
     
  15. kgh

    kgh New Member

    Fed, thanks. I didn't find that.
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    As noted by many posters, check the policy itself, rather than relying upon someone's word. The policy can be your friend.

    As an aside, I note from Fed's post that, in the circumstances related to the regulation cited, regional accreditation is specifically required. Yet another case where perfectly legitimate degrees from nationally accredited schools would not be acceptable.

    As a rule, I don't state that degrees from nationally accredited schools represent an inferior education. I can't judge that. In fact, I'm not sure it is even a fair inference. But it seems to upset some folks when it is pointed out that the degrees (rather than the education they represent) are, indeed, inferior. The three sources of research on this subject I'm aware of--my dissertation, John Bear's survey of AACRAO members, and DETC's own surveys--demonstrate this.

    Would I like this gap to disappear? I guess, if it doesn't represent a gap in educational quality. But the gap in degree acceptance is real, and ignoring it--or decrying it--can be harmful. There are some people connected to NA schools around here (invariably students and grads--the few administrators that post here don't do this) who can't deal with this fact.

    Dennis Miller (paraphrased about rude flight attendants): "Hey, honey, it was your decision to become a waitress in a bad restaurant at 20,000 feet in order to get free flights to Barbados." Or something like that.
     

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