NCU & Title IV

OK, but were they booted out of the fed backed program, or did they OPT out?

 

NCU was not "booted" out of the program. It completely NCU's decision. There are other options at NCU see here.


From NCU website:

A Word on Title IV Federal Student Aid Programs at NCU
Due to the restrictions imposed on distance education programs by federal regulations, Northcentral University chooses not to participate in Title IV Federal Student Aid Programs. Here are the top eight reasons why your program at Northcentral University will provide the kind of educational experience you can expect from our innovative online delivery system.

1.100% online course delivery with absolutely no residency requirements.
2.Regionally accredited by the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association.
3.Self-paced courses and no weekly attendance check-in requirements.
4.Flexible term completion schedules that fit your lifestyle and needs.
5.Live faculty/mentor interaction with Learners.
6.Interact online with faculty and Learners from around the world.
7.Learner-centered real world applied course content.
8.Responsive Learner-centered support staff and administration.

 

I don't think a self paced school can be title IV, correct?

 

As I understand it, yes, that is correct. NCU can probably generate more revenue by allowing students to complete coursework at their own pace (e.g. quicker - the quicker you sign up for a course, the quicker you pay more money, which is revenue for NCU), as opposed to attracting students who are sucking on the tits of title IV. The self-paced curriculum will generate a greater income for NCU. Additionally, it is extremely nice for the students who wish to work at an accelerated pace because they are not handicapped by a manditory 16 week semester, as is required by title IV. Unfortunately, students who are dependant on title IV can no longer afford to attend NCU, but other students are conversely benefited by the self-paced curriculum.

 

Lee Everest, the registrar informed me that they will consider participating int he title IV program again if the rules change because of the growing number of self-paced schools. This could be years down the line though.

 

NCU offers a level of flexiblity in terms of their flexible timeframes to complete courses; the self-directed nature of these courses with no online courseroom or residency requirements that virtually places it in a class of its own as a provider of distance doctoral degree education. Even their tuition is lower than most of the big three players in distance doctoral education. In offering this level of flexibility they cannot possibly meet or satisfy the needs of every prospective student such as those who are seeking title IV assistance. In fact I find that NCU has taken a very bold step by taking a position of wanting to do their 'own thing" that resulted in their not meeting guidelines for participation in title IV financial programming. In addition they are offering very fair alternative payment plans for students.

When one considers the fact that the other major players are charging astronomical tuitions (as an example Capella charges $4,000 a semester for tuition even if a student takes ONLY one course, a price tag that is significantly higher than what Ivy League schools charge for comparable degrees); require travel, significant time and additional money for residency meetings (that can add up a significant tab when one considers the expense for flights to other states, hotel bills, meals, etc), NCU in fact remains in a unique position for those seeking flexibility and fair pricing for a graduate RA education.

 

NCU opted out.

 

I'm glad NCU does it's own thing, it's just too bad about the limitations of TitleIV backing....I hope the rules do change.

 

Who says there is a mandated 16 week semester? Touro is Title IV and is on 12 week sessions.

 

It is not their semester length...

Lets not put NCU up on a pedestal over their decision to opt out of Title IV funding. The problem NCU had with Title IV is that Title IV makes decisions based on a standard 30 credits per annum for full time. If you are in an accelerated program like NCU's you may not get enough money to fund your program as you are gaining credits at a faster pace than allowed for funding dispersal. This causes students to slow down and that would cost NCU revenue for the near term. As it probably will also increase their drop out rate it could cost NCU revenue on a longer term.

Nothing against NCU but there wasn't anything altruistic in their decison to opt out of Title IV. There are a lot of schools which operate on less than 14 week terms and still offer Title IV.

On changes afoot for Title IV go here:

http://www.ed.gov/programs/disted/DEDP-thirdreport.doc

 

NCU, up until 1 Jan 06, was on a 16-week semester system. Students had 16 weeks to complete a course. Students were permitted to complete courses in less time but Title IV regulations would not allow students to move on to the next course until their 16-week semester ended.

It was NCU’s 16-week semester system that was driving the regulation.

NCU now operates on a 12-week term.

 

Re: It is not their semester length...

Quite a few students were forced to seek other programs as a result of NCU’s decision to drop Title IV funding. Hopefully Title IV regulations will change to allow schools like NCU, which operate on a student driven semester, to participate in Title IV funding in the future.

 

How about 8 week terms?

All of my classes for my undergrad (well almost all) were on 8 week terms. They were still eligible for Title IV.

If you read the standars for student funding and you will see it is clearly based on an amount of credits per year. It doesn't say anything about what terms you take it in. There is a college in Iowa that does one class at a time and you still get 15 credits in a normal semester. That would work out to less than 4 weeks per class.

Simply put, NCU cannot get enough money from Title IV as it is currently structured to allow for the students to complete their education as fast as some of them want it. Another reason I don't believe the 14 week semester could have been an issue was because NCU had to petition to be admitted on a trial basis to the program. They should have been denied right then if it was going to be a problem.

Also, Title IV requires expensive administrative requirement costs for the schools to operate. There are also other factors such as minimal drop out rates etc. that can impact a schools participation in the program. The programs NCU uses currently would be cheaper as it is between the student and the lender. NCU is a for profit school and cheaper student aid means more profit.

Again, nothing against NCU but I simply do not believe they dropped out because they had a 14 week semester.....

 

&$%# NCU

After several personal discussions publicly and a few privately with the president himself, on this board, I was ready and set to begin at NCU. I am so very glad I didn't. Unfortunately, as a Title IV "tit-sucker", their surprise change of tack would have been pretty disasterous for me and for my family. I like the program and I only wish they still had the fin-aid.

 

Re: It is not their semester length...

Quite frankly there is nothing "altruistic about any of the proprietary for-profit distance learning schools. Everyone of them is oriented to making big bucks and to bring in as much business (students) as possible. For example, can anyone defend Capella's rationale for charging $4,000 a term even if one course is taken? It is an outrageous amount of money except if one is lucky enough to have their company or the military pick up the tab. What about Union's policy of refusing to accept any graduate credits towards their degree programs? Is one to believe that this is done for altruistic purposes or that the U. of Phoenix's high tuition fees actually provide students with anything extraordinary?
Distance education programs are cognizant of the fact that their constituents are seeking convenience and are making students pay heavily for this Privledge".

So relative to some of the other schools NCU, at this time, is looking pretty good. Yes some students have been hurt by the tremination of TItle IV financing but there is no way any school is going to meet the needs of all students. So far, NCU is meeting the needs of many.

 

Re: Re: It is not their semester length...

How many students did NCU lose due to this change? It was my understanding that NCU only had this funding for a short period of time; therefore, it would appear to me that not many were affected enough to drop out. Does anyone really know? Also, what is the NET student change (ie how many left vs. how many stayed and WOULD have left if the flexibility was taken away) due to this change?

Just wondered if any current students there know (or anyone for that matter).

peACE,
ACE

 

Re: Re: Re: It is not their semester length...

I am one they would have lost had they continued with Title IV. If one needs to borrow money for their educational expenses there are plenty of schools to choose from. I pay my own way. I resented having to follow changes in the way the program was being administered so Title IV could be offered.

I do believe it was a mistake on NCU's part to even try the program. Their failed attempt did seem to hurt some people that needed to borrow.

Just my opinion

 

So then you’re saying there is nothing altruistic about NCU.

Basically, they want you to attend full-time. In fact, I think Walden actually enforces this rule in all of their PhD programs in psychology. Walden also uses the same flat quarterly tuition system and charges similar fees.
http://www.waldenu.edu/c/Admissions/Admissions_397.htm

And FYI, not all of Capella’s programs charge a flat quarter fee. In fact, all of their doctoral programs in psychology allow students to pay by the number of credit hours taken.

http://www.capella.edu/inc/pdf/tuition_chart.pdf

The flat fee tuition system is not financially doable if you plan to go part-time. Ivy League doctoral programs usually do not allow students to attend part-time anyway. ; )

So what can you say about not-for-profit schools like Saybrook charging a flat fee of $8,400 twice a year regardless of credits taken?

http://www.saybrook.edu/student_resources/business_office/fees_costs.asp

The Union Institute, another not-for-profit, also charges a flat rate regardless of courses taken. In fact, I believe they charge a flat fee of $9,048 every six months for a total annual tuition of $18,096.

http://www.tui.edu/tuition/RP_doctoral.asp



And what about not-for-profit Fielding’s flat fee of $5,940 per semester? That comes down to a total of $17,820 a year. Completion of their doctoral programs can take between four to eight years, excluding time off. Certainly, these are not schools for those with thin wallets.

http://www.fielding.edu/policies/financia/tuitinfo.htm

So far its starting to look like the small private for-profit NCU is the most altruistic school of all in terms of providing students affordable doctoral education! So much for 'for-profits' being so evil, eh?

Union is not-for-profit.

 

Who cares about Title IV? Why not just use Title III or Title V?

 

Then why is Union (not-for-profit) substantially more expensive than NCU (for-profit)?

Exactly what are the differences between for-profit universities and not-for-profit schools, particularly when it is noted that not-for-profit schools are substantially more expensive than for-profit schools, at least in this case???

IMO all schools must be in the black or else!!!!! What tax benefits are associated with both types of statuses (sp)?