Graduate Degree in Management vs. MBA

Okay, in my search of a "Certificate" or "Diploma" in management, to get one from a reputable school that has instant name recognition or even a "vague familiarity" to most would cost me between 5 to 6K....to which I think...Dang, I can get an entire MA or MS Management degree for that....albeit DETC...but still a valid graduate degree.

So this lead me to thinking, well I don't need a graduate degree in Management because an MBA and a MS or MA in Management would be very similar....correct?

So this lead me to thinking, well, heck, why do I even need a certificate then if I'm getting a MBA anyhow...then I think "oh yeah...because my undergrad is in CJ...and I wanted an undergrad cert in management...or business...but paying as much for one as for a second graduate degree just strikes me as absurd.

What says the galley?

 

Just go get the MBA..There generally is foundation courses in most MBA programs anyway they will fill in the blanks(somewhat) of what you missed in your undergrad.

That is unless you plan on St.Joseph's of Maine for your MBA,then I can see why you may want a graduate certficate.

 

Funny you should mention that Tim...that's exactly what I planned.

 

What do you want to do with the MBA?

 

I guess it all depends on what you plan to do with the degree. Personally speaking, I see no benefit in getting an MBA if your sole intention is to use it to further your career in law enforcement. A Masters in Public Administration would be a much better fit (IMO). There are many courses contained in an MBA program that don't apply to law enforcement.

 

I think I've decided that this endless search of yours -- even after you declare that you've decided what you're going to do -- is for pure entertainment/sport purposes!



But seriously, I think I know exactly what you're doing. You're using your spare time while finishing-up your bachelors at Southwestern College to so painfully research your options that there will be no second-guessing once you move on to the next step. I'm like that, too.

Wait a minute. I thought the Diploma from UofL that you liked was only around $1,500(US) or thereabouts. I thought you had decided on that... or did I miss a chapter?

Umm... okay... back to the relatively inexpensive UofL diploma. What of that? Does that not get you what you're looking for?

Stepping back a bit, and looking at the bigger picture... as I understand your situation, you have three concerns:

1. You want an undergraduate or postbaccalaureate (preferably the former) business/management credential of some kind to "round out" your BSCJ because you feel that going anywhere with the BSCJ, alone, will not make you look as much like management material to potential employers during the two or three years it takes you to get the MBA... which, of course, eventually will; and,
   
2. you want to make sure that when you enter the MBA program you have a sufficient background in accounting and finance and management and all that other stuff that you will more easily be able to understand and benefit from the MBA coursework; and,
   
3. you want to make sure that, because the particular MBA you'll be earning is a bit light in some of the classic MBA-type coursework that most other MBAs have (i.e., the finance, accounting, etc.), you don't want to emerge from the MBA program not really knowing all the things that typical MBA-holders typically know... to use your phrase, you don't want to be a mere paper tiger.

Do I have it about right?

First of all, before I get into any specifics, you specified: "[F]rom a reputable school that has instant name recognition or even a "vague familiarity." I dunno... were I you, I think I'd stop worrying too much about how impressive-sounding is the school. If that really made all that much difference, then you've already screwed-up by going to Ashworth and Southewestern. A certificate or diploma from Penn State or UofL or eCornell -- or even Harvard or Yale -- wouldn't undo that; and will just cost an arm and a leg... er... well... except maybe for the UofL diploma for little more than an impressive-sounding institutional name. I just wouldn't spend too much time doing institutional name-dropping with your degrees. It's just a huge waste of money. You're currently working with and/or manage every-day-Joe-type, middle-class, hard-working stiffs. All a credential from some hoity-toity institution will make any of them do is roll their eyes at the ceiling and say under their breaths, "Well, excuuuuuse me!"

It's just my opinion, of course, but I think you're focusing too much on making sure that the institution sounds good, and not enough on the inherent quality and appropriateness of the credential for your very specific purposes. Were I you, I'd ensure that degree names and content are appropriate to what you want to accomplish; and, beyond that, just make sure they're at least regionally accredited (or, if foreign, are evaluated as equivalent thereto) wherever possible... with nationally-accredited only for not-so-consequential things, as in the case of something that I'm about to suggest, below...


AS TO ITEM #1

The relatively inexpensive UofL diploma resolves item 1 rather nicely, I thought. If the problem is that you can't begin it until you've finished your BSCJ, I'd ask UofL to waive that requirement in your case because you already have the equivalent of what the UK considers as straight (as opposed to an "honours") bachelors degree.

If you can't get UofL to do that, then it seems to me that if ever there were a situation in which a lower-cost, nationally-accredited certificate or diploma actually would be useful, yours might be it. I mean... why wouldn't a nationally-accredited, $1,650 Certificate in Business Management from Andrew Jackson University (which you would not have to wait until you completed your BSCJ in order to begin) be okay as long as it's sitting atop/alongside a regionally-accredited BSCJ from Southwestern College?

I mean, sure... we balked at "nationally-accredited" back when you were considering a nationally-accredited second bachelors alongside your regionally-accredited BSCJ. That, I still believe, would have been a huge mistake. But an undergraduate certificate is a whole different animal. Remember that it's just a "rounding out" sort of thing. All that matters, it seems to me, is that it's accredited somehow... and "nationally-accredited" is defintely accredited. DETC accreditation is even seen by some as the top of the heap of the national accreditors... easily on par, in many people's minds, with regional-accreditation. For those for whom that is not case, the fact that it's only a certificate, and not an entire degree, may be sufficient to get them to accept it atop/alongside your regionally-accredited BSCJ.

If all you're looking for, pursuant to item #1, is something that will evidence management training to accompany your BSCJ so you can better use said BSCJ to achieve management positions until you get your MBA, then it seems to me that just about any accredited certificate or diploma in management or business administration will do... including nationally-accredited ones, or the one from UofL.

As to the various certificates available at Andrew Jackson, the $1,650 Certificate in Law Enforcement Management would actually look even better your resume because your primary bachelors is in criminal justice. The problem, however, would be, I think, that that certificate, save, perhaps for one course, would be largely repetitive of courses I suspect you're already getting in the Southewestern program.

The $1,650 Certificate in Business Foundations doesn't look as good on the resume, but I sure like the courses in your case.


AS TO ITEM #2

I believe this is a non-issue; and that you'll be quite adequately prepared for the coursework of the MBA you're contemplating without any further preparation beyond your BSCJ. And even if that's not true, what I'm about to suggest in item 3 will kill item #2 with the same stone as will kill item #3...


AS TO ITEM #3

Believe it or not, you could probably fill-in whatever gaps (if any) that you perceive in your either pre- or post-MBA education with books like these; and/or by devouring pretty much every last word -- and following all its reading recommendations -- of a web site like this one.


AS TO ALL THREE ITEMS

You might also be able to kill all three items with one stone by just getting the $1,500 Pre-MBA Management Certificate from Rutgers University (See the specific pre-MBA currculum here).

 

And what are you basing that assumption on?

 

I'm talking about/to friendorfoe specifically... and with whose situation I'm familiar. It's specific to him, not to just anyone reading. Sorry that I didn't make that clear. That said, I think worrying too much about how impressive-sounding is the school is a huge waste of time for most people. There are exceptions, of course. I'm just saying in a general sense.

 

Being in the same profession as friendorfoe, I guess I found that particular sentence a little insulting.

I do agree about not getting too caught up in the name of the school. In speaking to several high ranking supervisors in my department, I have found that an advanced degree, by itself, has no bearing on promotion. Proven work history and communication skills were essential, however.

Friendorfoe, get a degree that will give you personal satisfaction, not one that you think will impress other people.

 

It certainly wasn't intended that way. I'm sorry it struck you so.

My point was based on my experience of having worked a lot with people in your profession -- and I mean a lot -- and I have observed that to nearly the last of the rank-and-file of them, they tend not to be terribly impressed with so-called experts and their impressive-sounding degrees... even when they have a few themselves. That's all I meant. I apologize for communicating it badly.

 

This, of course, depends on your reasons for getting a degree. If you are getting the degree for personal reasons, it doesn't really matter where you go as long as you are happy with the program. On the other hand, if professional advancement is your goal, go for the degree that will make you the most attractive to future employers.

 

See... maybe that's where the problem is: Defining what makes one most attractive to potential employers.

I don't think it's where the degree's from as much as it is what the degree's in, what its coursework entailed and how well you did in it, and whether the degree is regionally-accredited.

Of course there are employers who only hire from top-tier schools -- the ones with the impressive names -- but I've worked for employers like that, and it wasn't very much fun.

Look... it's just my opinion, but I suspect that getting a degree that's bears the right name for the job, and is regionally accredited, is probably as important -- along with experience and other factors -- as the degree being from someplace terribly impressive.

That said, I suppose that, all other things being equal (and remember, that's a lot of things for the typical job applicant) two otherwise identical candidates -- one with a degree from the regionally-accredited Harvard, and the other with a nearly identical-sounding degree from the (perhaps surprisingly) regionally-accredited Mort & Sal's University and Used Car Lot, the employer will probably choose the Harvard guy. But, really, in most situations, a good work history and appropriate degrees -- almost no matter where they're from, as long as they're regionally-accredited -- will usually do it. There will be exceptions, obviously.

 

DesElms,

I apologize to you as I read too much into that one sentence. As you said, you were responding to friendorfoe and I took it out of context

I definitely agree, that is why I was saying that I see no advantage of getting an MBA if you are tying to impress those within law enforcement.

 

If that's it then TESC has some poco dinero (if you test out) undergrad cert programs. I'd think some would serve as well as base for a graduate management degree.

And, if you care to add to your "useless certs", they have some Professional Certifications in partnership with Gatlin Education Services, whoever they are.

 

Look, wouldn't it make sense to reverse what you're doing and go for certificate first then apply it to an graduate degree later?

At Salve Regina University you could start out with this certificate in Law Enforcement Leadership:

http://www.salve.edu/graduatestudies/programs/mgt/cgs.html

Then if you liked it you could apply the certificate to the MSM at the same school:

http://www.salve.edu/graduatestudies/programs/mgt/programs.html

or if you have the prerequisites, to thier MBA with a departmental concentration:
http://www.salve.edu/graduatestudies/programs/ba/programs.html

Or take the MSM, then transfer the credits to Excelsior's MBA program, complete a few more credits there and come out with a grad certificate and two masters degrees.

I just put in for tuition reimbursement for my first grad class at Salve. It's fairly inexpensive at $350 per credit, you can try 3 classes before they make you apply, and you have your choice of online or self paced format.

 

Again thanks to everyone who responded.

As for the University of London...I haven't given up on them, but I am a bit less enthusiastic after reading the fine print (fine print does that to me every time). The UofL cert is going to cost in the ballpark of $4600-$5000 because of the low tuition + the high registration fee + the exam fee + how many exams you take, etc. So it's kind of one of those "Okey Doke" deals where it looks good up front, then you get into it and about $4,000 later you're left wondering how you missed that....

I figured that if I was going to spend that much...I may as well get the U of Penn Cert...

As for name recognition, I think you guys have brought me back down to earth using good sense, which incidentally is why I post here. I guess I never figured a DETC cert would fit my needs...but now that I think about it, why not? The cert doesn't make or break my degree, it just rounds it out.

I will thoroughly check out those Rutgers certs...I didn't see them before and I thought I had combed Rutgers pretty good.....

Additionally Andrew Jackson has more than one cert that caught my eye....and I thought about getting the one in "Homeland Security" just for fun and insight, not that I would really use it on my resume per se....but it would be cool to have.

As for me advancing in law enforcement with an MBA or MPA or what have you....it doesn't matter...as said before, experience and personal attributes are what gets you there, having an advanced degree just makes it a little easier to justify....and I would be getting the St. Josephs MBA not so much because it is an MBA, but because of its content. As soon as I saw that degree it was like a light went off in my head and I just knew it was for me. As you can see from my indecisiveness, this does not occur often so when it does I go with it.

Another "as for". As for me being a blue collar working stiff who works with other blue collar working stiffs, this is absolutely true. If you work in uniform and are entering your 30's and somewhere on your uniform is a name tag......you might just be a blue collar working stiff. That doesn't make me less professional or less intelligent; it's just the way it is. In fact among most police I know, I find that they tend to be by and large the most intelligent, discerning and selfless people you can be around....except when dealing with their supervisors. which is where those management and people skills come in to play. Did someone say "Leadership"?....yeah...those too.



and Gregg....

"I think I've decided that this endless search of yours -- even after you declare that you've decided what you're going to do -- is for pure entertainment/sport purposes!"---Gregg DesElms, 2005

Yeah....sort of.....well....not really.....but maybe....

Actually my plan is pretty much laid out fixed.

BSCJ Southwestern.....
Cert in Proactive Leadership from eCornell....(it just looks too cool)
MBA St. Josephs

and many years down the line an MSCJ from Troy University or someone priced very similar....not for any specific purpose other than perhaps one day I'd like to teach part time (even at a DETC school or other nationally accredited school like Remington College) and I really enjoy the study of Criminal Justice as an academic enterprise. Making cops better cops is something I have a passion for.

The only thing I left out is an undergrad business credential.....thus my dilemma....but what a happy and entertaining dilemma. Not only that, but during my search I think I've helped a few other people find what they were looking for without even trying.....the things that make this board great.

As for the books you listed….I’ve got the 10 day MBA on my wish list TWICE at Amazon….oh how great minds think alike….and ours do too once in a while.

A couple people asked what I intend to do with the degree…cert…etc. Well, I find that business and criminal justice are not that different as an enterprise. For instance, both have human resources, assets and liabilities. Both have budgets, goals and teams within the enterprise. Both must market themselves (believe me, the police need to market themselves) in order to get the public comfortable with what they offer, services performed, the ever so important image of the CEO and in our case the Chief….in fact the top guy in both organizations even has “Chief” in his title….(how neat). In any case I find that much of what applies to business could easily be applied to criminal justice (as a business). Now granted, when you get into things like constitutional law, criminal procedures, forensics and evidence, etc…..criminal justice is its own thing. But from the perspective of dealing with people, the public and the organization…many things are similar. Having a working knowledge in both can only be more beneficial. A degree in Criminal Justice Management or Criminal Justice Administration tends to take parts of an MPA, Masters of Management and MSCJ and mold them into something of a hybrid….which though unique, is really not what I’m looking for.

I’ll continue to work in law enforcement in some capacity unless life precludes me from doing so, in which case perhaps an MBA will lubricate my way back into mainstream private enterprise.

 

There's nothing quite like an MBA. Everyone knows what an MBA is and it has a longstanding good reputation. An MA in management might be good, but it simply doesn't roll off the tongue as smoothly as "MBA." Also, MBA is a unifersal term, whereas an MA in management doesn't roll of the tongue as smoothly and simply doesn't have the universal _________ as an MBA (I can't quite put it in words).

 

universal recognition? maybe?

 

Yes -- an MBA has universal recoginition, unlike the MA in management. When you say that you have an MBA, you've said a lot... or at least that's the universal recoginition. LOL

 

Re: Re: Graduate Degree in Management vs. MBA

Gregg, that is a great suggestion. Before starting my MBA, I read 10-day MBA, The Portable MBA and looked at the Quick MBA site extensively, just to be sure I was ready for the coursework. I also recommend The Portable MBA in Acct/Finance and the Portable MBA in Economics.