Is a Research Doctorate Technically a Distance Learning Degree?

On page 103 of the just released "Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees," the following is a quote: "Research doctorates are almost never advertised as distance learning programs."

On page 92, the following is a quote: "In the US, the distance-learning doctorate is still a rarity...In the UK, South Africa and Australia, the game is a little different because they use a purely research-oriented doctoral model...Commonwealth countries jump right to the dissertation (which is usually longer and more involved than a US dissertation). Most universities allow students to do their dissertation research off campus."

My question is this: While the research doctorate is technically a non-US doctoral model, is the research doctorate considered to be a distance learning doctorate? Would this be the correct way to designate the degree?

Russell

 

I don't really consider them distance education doctorates, myself. Though they can be. They are probably more accurately described as negotiable residency doctorates. How much attendance is required will probably depend both on the demands of your dissertation research and on your advisor's mood. The same could probably be said for some conventional American programs, at least once any coursework requirements are completed.

This is probably the main reason for the notorious unwillingness of some of these programs to clearly tell prospective students exactly what appearances will be necessary. They probably don't know themselves. It varies from student to student.

My unscientific observation is that several British and Australian universities are awakening to the distance education potential of these things and are starting to market them as distance education degrees, particularly to unsubsidized full-fee-paying foreign students.

It increases graduate enrollments and generates cash, but doesn't cost very much to support.

 

Hi, there!

Sincerely yours,


Karlos Al "El Caballero" Lacaye
[email protected]

 

The concept of "research doctorate" and "distance program" are not not related. The research doctorate is based upon submission of an acceptable thesis only, as opposed to coursework combined with a dissertation (as in the U.S.). The research model takes as long, and involves as much work. But the learning that would take place in the classroom takes the form of research instead. The result is a much longer and comprehensive thesis.

How much residency is required varies from situation to situation. Even though your degree program is a research degree, your advisor could require you to attend classes, seminars, meetings, and even conduct some of the same. As such, residency requirements can sort of grow as you go, or they can be negotiated up front.

In the U.S. we like to have our degree requirements laid out for us menu-style. So many courses, what kind of comprehensive exam, how long a thesis, how much residency, length of time in program, etc. It would seem that in the U.K., much more is worked out after enrollment, and that the relationship between student and advisor is more of an apprenticeship, or indentured servitude. Like having to snatch the pebble from the master's hand before being allowed to leave the temple.

Rich Douglas

 

My D.Min. committee chairman, Dr. Merwyn Johnson, earned his Th.D. at the University of Basil. He actually relocated and lived near the university for the full duration of the program. However, he said there were absolutely no course requirements, mandatory class attendance, only periodic meetings with his advisor, and utilization of the UB library for research. So, even living at the university, his modus operandi was research oriented.

Russell

 

Bear wrote in an earlier version of his guide that the research doctorate is primarily based on a mentoring relationship between a student and mentor. He added also that the method of entry into such a program is usually via making contact with a desirable mentor (hopefully the "desire" is revolving around academic interests).

In 1998 I put Bear's advice to work and performed a massive internet search of British uni's and their faculty. I found two faculty at two different schools that were publishing on areas that I had already been writing on, so I was very familair with the discourse of that particular sub-field.

I struck up a dialogue with each of these people. Unfortunately I was still caught up in the CPU problems and couldn't do much until that was sorted out. One of the would-be mentors even advised me on what to do about the CPU matter and implied that I could still probably get accepted to work with him, even if it meant signing up for an M.Phil initially (another word for probation). The M.Phil morphs into a Ph.D. after a year of probation and only if one is doing Ph.D.-level work. If the dissertation sucks the person doesn't get a Ph.D., but is rewarded the M.Phil instead (also known jestfully to some UK academics as a "consolation prize").

I did not act on that prof's advice but am still in contact with him. It turned out later that both of the would-be mentors knew each other, had taught for awhile in the same school, and one had cited the other in some of his papers. Meanwhile I began writing projects with the second faculty mentor (have two publications forthcoming). The second prof recently moved to Europe to a new tenured professorship and last spring offered to mentor me to complete a Ph.D.

To show how 'uncanned' this approach really is, the mentor and I are still trying to figure out exactly how I sign up. The institute head said "Just sign up with the mentor", and when I raised concern with him that I needed to be on record somewhere in case something happens with the mentor, he said that I'd be registered in the particular department under that particular mentor. So as someone has implied (perhaps Rich) research doctorates seem to be a go-as-you-go system. Research doctorates are not termed by UK schools as distance doctorates. They can be done fulltime or part-time depending on the school. Part-time usually means external. "Taught programs" (as they are referred to in UK and parts of Europe) are an entirely different matter. The research doctorate is certainly not an approach for someone who needs a lot of direction.
Earon
(Currently taking some HWMBA courses
and waiting to sign up for the research doctorate - as soon as we get it figured out).

 

I agree with Rich that "research degree" and "distance learning" are not necessarily interwined.

It may be largely a matter of institutional expectations. At the University of Cambridge, for example, Ph.D.s are essentially research degrees, with attendance at lectures optional and with no coursework. However, in-person meetings with advisors occur throughout the year, and there is an expectation (stated or not, I don't know) that a student will be in residence during the academic terms.

 

Russell, great question with some great responses!

I'm not limiting my response to "research" Ph.D.s, but would expand it to *any* Ph.D. I believe that "DL" - as the term is used in the undergrad and Masters level - is *NOT* appropriate for *solid* Ph.D. programs. I prefer a term closer to something like 'adult learning model'. (But I'm still scratching around for something better.)

I have strong feelings about this due to my experience with Fielding (HOD Ph.D.). For certain, I did a lot of the course work and research 'alone' in my own study or in the field. However, I was in close contact with my mentor, other faculty, other students, members of other educational institutions, strong practitioners, and the population in general.

Contact was via face-to-face one-on-one meetings, F2F conferences, F2F training, telephone (one-on-one and one-with-many), e-mail, cluster meetings, interviews, presentations, etc. I learned and I also taught, so I was both a learner and a teacher at the same time.

In other words, my experience was pretty broad / complex in regards to delivery method. DL was part of it, but there was *so* much more.

Anyone got a label better than 'adult learning model'?? Either way, 'DL' is just too limiting.

Barry Foster

(who has completed a BA (Southeastern), a MBA (City U), a MA (Fielding), and a Ph.D. (Fielding) - and even a webmaster certificate program (Penn State) using these kinds of educational delivery methods)

 

As the rabbi responsible for the disputed Talmudic passage here, maybe I can shed some light on this subject...

When I said most universities allow students to do their dissertation research off-campus, I wasn't necessarily thinking of distance learning per se; I was thinking also of in-the-field research, such as what one might do at a nearby university or industrial location. For example, Napier University--which most emphatically does not offer a distance learning Ph.D., by research or otherwise--does encourage students to do their actual research in nearby industry settings.

Likewise, it's hard to imagine that a British student doing a dissertation on Max Kadushin would be discouraged from doing his or her research at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America library in New York, since JTSA has Rabbi Max's personal papers and whatnot. So that's what I was driving at. In terms of what we would call distance learning doctorates (rather than off-campus ones), I would still say that a majority--say, 60%--of schools would allow off-campus students to do the majority of research from a home base facility, and this is what we would call distance learning. But I confer with everyone that very few schools explicitly describe arrangements where students need not ever visit the advisor in person, though I would add at this point that I think a number of highly reputable schools have supervised such an arrangement under special circumstances.

The bottom line is that a professor in the UK, Australia, etc. has a great deal more power, both over the student and over establishing degree requirements, than a professor in the United States. So if Dr. Smith wants to supervise a student without requiring any on-campus residency, chances are pretty good that Dr. Smith will get what s/he wants.


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

If I pursue a HW MBA, how many courses on campus need I take in order to not have a DL degree?

 

That's a difficult (but excellent) question. My guess would be five, but you could take two of the five on-campus at a university other than Heriot-Watt, then have them marked as exemptions.

Of course, in reference to research doctorates, I really should mention that nobody here is saying that off-campus research doctorates are not distance learning degrees--rather, I think we all agree that (as BED says) most off-campus research doctorates aren't advertised as distance learning degrees, and that's a whole other breed of fish.

Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Tom, I'm with you regarding the off-campus research. I'm learning here and appreciate your thoughts.

I'm not familiar with UK or Australian doctorates - except the little I've read on this board and AED. I'm assuming that the programs require dissertation committees, oral defenses, comprehensive exams, etc.? If so, wouldn't the 'hoop' of 'proving it' through exams, dis. committee signatures and oral defenses put the mentor's reputation on the line? It seems the result is the same as US programs.

The only reason I'm asking is this: In the US programs, the committee chairperson takes the bulk of the heat for the quality of the student's research - faculty-wise.

If so, the result is the same. It seems that the end objective of the student 'becoming a Ph.D.' (verses 'earning a Ph.D.') remains the target state. The experience of entering the Ph.D. community is just as important as the learning.

My bottom line is that US mentors have quite a bit of latitude as well, although I've got no clue how it compares to UK / Australian programs. The student is the final result. Has s/he become a Ph.D. in the process?

Side note: This is a significant reason I don't believe that "DL" is appropriate for Ph.D.s. I do value using various methods - even radical methods that match the student's need - to getting to the end state.

(Geez, I'm confusing myself with this post ... Sorry folks!

Barry Foster

 

My understanding is that UK/SA/AUS PhD's are research based with the thesis being the sole work upon which the PhD is granted. One is mentored or supervised throughout until the thesis is submitted. Depending on the school, an oral defense may or may not be required. I don't believe there are comprehensive exams, as there is no coursework upon which to base such exams. At least, I have not seen any in the prospectuses I have examined.

 

The variant would be how many words are required in the thesis. I have seen as little as 60-80,000 and upwards to 100,000 words as required. Still, by the time one has done the research necessary and integrated into a written result, there is a great deal of work done.

 

I have interacted extensively with institutions throughout the UK and South Africa regarding their PhD programs. Few institutions employ the term "distance learning" (which seems to imply a "mode" of study) with reference to PhD research; at the same time, many institutions refer to engaging in PhD research "at-a-distance" or "externally" (which refers merely to one's geographical location in relation to the institution with which he or she is registered). This seems to imply that, regardless of whether one is conducting research "internally" or elsewhere in the world, wholly research-based doctorates are very similar in format, requirements, quality, etc.

 

Reading the Stanford catalog, I noticed that some of their departments have no set coursework requirements after the master's and/or comprehensive examination level. They say in effect that coursework is prescribed on a case-by-case basis depending on the student's dissertation topic and previous preparation. I believe that some of the UC departments do the same thing. But I believe that a certain amount of residency is required, including continuing participation in seminars and a certain number of required teaching hours. What's more, graduate students often participate in ongoing departmental research groups.

I wonder if the whole research/coursework and residential/DL dichotomies aren't a whole lot less well-defined than our discussion suggests.

I mean, what about the UC Berkeley astronomy graduate student who spends half of his or her time at an astronomical observatory in Chile? Or the classical archaeology doctoral candidate busily trying to record a newly excavated Roman villa in Turkey before it is drowned by the rising waters behind a new dam? Is that stuff DL? I doubt that it would be considered DL even if the student spends months at a remote location.

Since earning a doctorate is partly a rite of passage, perhaps the issue is less whether you are physically on campus and more what your priorities are. The residential student may spend months off campus, but that remote study is dictated by the research itself. The DL student comes in with family or work commitments that are prior to the research work. They aren't giving up worldly life, receiving their tonsure and rising at 2AM for matins. I wonder if that is one reason why explicitly low-residency doctorates aren't always accepted by traditional academics even though some traditional doctorates may be de-facto low residency.

 

I think this is a huge issue. Traditional doctorates are designed to bring someone into the field of study, and/or prepare him/her to teach that subject at a university. "Rite of passage" and "apprenticeship" both seem to apply.

DL doctoral programs, on the other hand, are directed at mid-career professionals, some in academia, others in the workplace. It is more likely that these students are filling a requirement or making other opportunities more available by completing the doctorate. But they don't need the entree that a traditional doctoral program provides.

I wouldn't recommend a Walden, Union, Capella, etc. degree to a just-got-my-degree grad student looking to become a college professor. That person would be hard pressed to meet the people, train in a university setting, or network into an entry-level teaching job with such a degree. But for the assistant professor already into his/her career hoping to move up, or the counselor hoping to become a psychologist, or the corporte trainer hoping to improve his chances for promotion ( ), such degrees may be ideal.

Rich Douglas

 

Rich,

What about the mid-career minister who just turned 45, already has US RA B,M,D degrees, has 3 1/2 years adjunct teaching experience at a RA school, works in denominational leadership, has the prettiest 4 year old granddaughter on the planet, and is seeking a non-US research doctorate (Ph.D.)? Would this scenario warrant pursuing such a degree?

Russell

 

Yes. Or no. Maybe? I suspect grandpa will have a lot of fun seeking his new doctorate.

Rich Douglas, 42, who's daughter better not be having kids yet!

 

Its been quite a journey, Rich. Married at 18, a father at 20, a grandfather at 40. And, BTW, its GRANDDAD---not grandpa. Man, I'm too young to be a grandpa. When I turn 65, then I will be a grandpa.

On a more serious note, I read your post soemtime back about being enrolled in a RA doctoral program. Let me encourage you to pursue it to completion. I think your subject matter is very important and needful for the DL community.

Blessings,
Russell