AUSTRALIAN & NZ DEGREES

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Peter French, Aug 21, 2001.

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  1. Peter French

    Peter French member

    I have a family (2nd), a retirement suitable career as an intsructional designer, educational consultant to the PCE area, and as a registered careers counsellor - and at 57 as most padts of me still work exceptionally well, I am going to enjoy life. This means that I wont be contributing here, and looking in only occasionally.

    I am very happy to answer any students questions, and my email for this purpose is
    [email protected]

    This will please some :))

    My concern is for the wellbeing of my fellow student and friends, and that has been adequately demonstrated recently here and on a.e.d. For those who wish to consult other than themsleves and a catalogue, I am happy to give free professional, independent, and unbiased advice. In my national peer-research group we often discuss the plight of the foreign student doing post graduate studies in Australia and New Zealand. Time will tell how many complete their programs and exit with our pure research PhDs. More undoubtedly will achieve their DBAs and DPsychs etc., and we are quite happy about that as it improves our funding situation somewhat.

    Education at all levels here apart from some coursework Masters and Professional Doctorates are free - the latter are expected to be employer sponsored. As we traditionally qualify professionally at undergraduate level - LLB, MBBS, BEc, BEng, BBus, BArch etc - the content of our further degrees are not as aligned to US degrees as appears at the first glance. Most professional people don't opt for even a Masters degree, and many academics, as in the UK, may not go down the doctoral path, as publshing is more important. It would not be uncommon for a PhD studnet to be supervised by someone with an excellent publishing record and no PhD.

    The Australian and New Zealnd educational environment has a different attraction to the foreign and US student. To US students it is a cheap way to do a degree, and these mainly seem to be a doctoral level. We don't have the rush on Doctorates that the US has. Very few libraries and even less bookshops stock John bears books - the awareness and need to have a higher degree simply does not exist to the same extent. Bottom tier universities are capitalising on the foreign demand as it is funding positiive for them. Top and second tier univiersities on the other hand attract good research funding, and therefore the opportunities you seek are not offered generally. Many get accepted on their home Masters degrees when a local may even get knocked back. But the local is local and is not paying. The US student is paying and we will probably never see them again, and if they don't finish they have still paid up to date ... And of course there is always the burning issue of whether the degree of rigour that we expect out here is always or necessarily applied in the non local student's case - some academics statee that they are forced to pay fee paying students. That raises concerns, but they are being addressed.

    Our culture is quite different, and therefore our courses. This is not to say that degrees and qualifications are better or worse - they are simply different. You assess things differently and value journalists assessments of university rankings we ead the book at the news stand, smile and generally don't buy it. We look at the faculty and its reputation rather than at the University - some we don't even consider, but that is a personal decision.

    But we welcome the foreign students and your open cheque books. Please keep coming.

    Peter French
    MEd MAcc
    Univeristy of New England, Armidale, Australia www.une.edu.au
     
  2. Peter French

    Peter French member

    I meant '...PASS fee paying students...' not pay them :))

    That empahises the point a little doesn't it?

    P J French
     
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Peter French writes, in part: "Very few libraries and even less bookshops stock John bears books..."

    A statement at odds with facts. Bears' Guide is distributed in Australia by the giant Simon & Schuster, and I understand that sales per capita are terrific: more than twice as high in Australia as in the US or Canada (where they are having a really good year). Specifically, in Australia about one person in 9,000 bought the book during the first six months of 2001, while in the US it was one in 21,000.

    PS: In American, that would be "fewer" not "less."
     
  4. Peter E. Tucker

    Peter E. Tucker New Member

    John Bear wrote:

    Peter French writes, in part: "Very few libraries and even less bookshops stock John bears books..."
    A statement at odds with facts. Bears' Guide is distributed in Australia by the giant Simon & Schuster, and I understand that sales per capita are terrific: more than twice as high in Australia as in the US or Canada (where they are having a really good year). Specifically, in Australia about one person in 9,000 bought the book during the first six months of 2001, while in the US it was one in 21,000.

    PS: In American, that would be "fewer" not "less."

    Well, I just did a quick ring-round of the two national bookstores in my city (Hobart), Dymocks and Angus & Robertsons, and for good measure the University of Tasmania bookshop as well, and none stock, or have ever stocked, Bear's Guide.

    Simon & Schuster a "giant" maybe, but they do not appear to be a leviathan when it comes to stocking the shops with this particular book, not in my State at least. I do not doubt John Bear's statement about one in 9,000 Australians buying his book: but Peter French's statement that few bookshops stock the book is not - on my observation - "at odds with the facts". I have to say that I have never seen it displayed in bookshops in Sydney and Melbourne, and I have asked. Perhaps it is a recent thing. I have had to ordered my copy through Amazon.

    My two bobs worth.




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    Peter Tucker
    Australia
     
  5. Peter E. Tucker

    Peter E. Tucker New Member

    Further on this topic, because I'm beginning to wonder where all these Australians are with John Bear's book...

    I thought I might have been too hasty in my last post as Hobart is the smallest of Australia's capital cities. Perhaps things are different in the big smoke?

    I have just telephoned both Dymocks and Angus & Roberston at their central Melbourne shops. Now these are the biggest shops in the second biggest city in country. One would reasonable expect that, if a book was generally available in Australia then it would be available at both, or at least either, of these retailers.

    The response from both was the same: no stocks of Bear's Guide on the shelves (and Dymocks checked their Sydney store as well while I waited). And its not that they had it and sold out - never been stocked. Very happy, though, to order it in especially from the "giant".

    Pehaps that is what the one in 9,000 Australians are doing? Or maybe the book is being distributed through a minor bookshop network?

    Notwithstanding, Peter French is correct in his original statement: few Australian book stores (the major ones at least) stock Bear's Guide.

    (More is the pity because I could have saved the AU$60 it cost me via Amazon.)


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    Peter Tucker
    Australia
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Cannot both (yours and John's) observations be accurate? It is the difference between anecdotal observation and hard data. There are plenty of libraries in the U.S. that do not have a copy of the book. There are many bookstores that do not have it on the shelves. But that doesn't alter the fact that hundreds of thousands have been sold and are in use.

    The peril is in taking an observation and turning it into a trend (and inferring a fact where none exists). Tiny sample, few data points, skewed results. All wrapped up neatly in a pre-determined outcome to support an opinion.

    Rich Douglas
     
  7. Peter E. Tucker

    Peter E. Tucker New Member

     

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