Institute of Worship Studies in Florida

I stumbled upon this graduate school today. I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts about the school? I thought the faculty looked pretty good. Their accreditation situation is curious. They have applied to the ABHE which currently only accredits undergraduate programs and IWS doesn't offer any undergraduate programs. (ABHE is in the process of seeking approval to accredit master's degrees, but that hasn't happened as yet to my understanding).

http://www.iwsfla.org/

 

You're not kidding. The faculty, with a few exceptions, have impeccable credentials!

Not sure their statement about applicant status with ABHE is exactly accurate.

The programs look thorough and somewhat rigorous.

Prices (doctorate is $7,000 and master's is $5600) are reasonable but since they are unaccredited I would go to SATS.

By the time one finishes the SATS master's, they will have the doctoral program available. Plus, a master's and doctorate from SATS will probably cost much less than the master's at the Institute of Worship Studies.

 

Jimmy, where is the photo of the Libertarian candidate-for President?

Wew, won't that delightful pic of George have the liberals jumping? Des will probably ban you from the board!

 

If I have to look at all Des' leftist links each time I read one of his posts, he can look at George when he reads mine.

[Hi DesElms ]

I voted for Bush in '04 so I put his picture up. I still like him and think he is doing a superb job. Had it not been for '00, he would not be so vilified today.

Don't know who the LP candidate will be. Am hoping it's going to be someone who is a realist and pragmatist with excellent speaking skills.

 

IWS founder-president a well-known scholar

Robert Webber, who is listed on the site as the president of IWS is a well-known scholar in the area of worship and especially patristic studies (studies on the early Church), and an advocate of a return to liturgical worship within the context of modern Evangelicalism. He was a professor at Wheaton for some 32 years (1968-2000, according to the site), and has been a professor with an endowed chair at Northern Baptist Seminary since 2000. His ministry page on his Ancient-Future Worship site gives an idea of what Webber, and by extension presumably IWS, is about.

On one level, Jimmy is right; SATS is definitely less expensive, and is a good, accredited school. At the same time, if one's focus were on worship studies, and could afford it, the opportunity to study the subject under Webber would be quite a drawing card, really. IWS is a legit school, in my opinion, as they are clearly working on accreditation and are transparent as to where in the process they stand at the moment.

Peace,

Matt

 

This may indeed be a seminary to watch. There may be some significant advances at this school. I agree that Dr. Webber's presence really does lend legitamacy. The ABHE candidacy puzzles me a bit. Why not apply for RA or TRACS? Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary employs an adjunct prof. with his Doctor of Worship Studies from this school. I think that is significant.

http://ggbts.edu/cgi-bin/fac2.cgi?cid=52283

 

This quote from the on-line catalog speaks to goals for the school:

"It is the hope of the faculty, administration and supportive constituency of The Institute for Worship Studies Florida Campus that, because of the high standards of the institution, the degrees it awards will enjoy a certain prestige and recognition within the academic, as well as the ecclesiastical, community, regardless of the status of accreditation. Nevertheless, full accreditation remains a high priority."

 

I don't know. Columbia Biblical Seminary has a professor with a degree from Oxford, Dayton, TN.

Dr. King joined the faculty in 1997 and Oxford didn't achieve TRACS candidate status until 2003.

 

That's a very good point. Do you suppose Dr. King was an accomplished professor/theologian or whatever before he got the doctorate? That's my theory about people with questionable doctorates who are teaching in solid educational institutions.

 

I don't know, to be honest. I had never heard of him prior to being familiar with his faculty position a number of year's ago.

I had heard of Dr. Webber, however, prior to this thread.

 

Jimmy, this is the first time I'm hearing of "Oxford Graduate School". Did they have a bad reputation earlier, or is it possible that at the time Dr. King studied with them they were more or less where IWS is at now?

Peace,

Matt

 

Hi Matt,

I don't remember the specifics but I do know they were not that highly regarded at one time by a few posters on here and I cannot remember who they are. These discussions occurred about four or so year's ago.

I tried a search but didn't find much, sorry. I seem to recall a few posters treated Oxford in the same light they did Graduate Theological Foundation (the Oxford connection and all).

However, I don't see anything on their site about students going to the real Oxford. Of course, it's late and I am ready to go to bed.

 

GREAT PICTURE but I would add one more link - http://www.wketchup.com/

I ordered several bottles and it is really good. I know someone that ordered six cases and gave it away at his store.

 

Thanks and great link. Never heard of it. I removed some of my links to keep it short and simple, so I will let you add this one to your sig line.

 

There is a friend of mine who is earning his doctorate through the Worship Studies Institute and is a full faculty member at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary (on the music faculty). He was voted on faculty BEFORE entering the program, but has been purusing the doctorate since. The Seminary is accredited by both SACS and ATS, so I guess the Worship Studies Institute degree is good enough.

 

That makes 2 professors at SBC seminaries- -that I know of--who have DWS degrees from the Institute of Worship Studies. I guess it's a real player.

http://ggbts.edu/cgi-bin/fac2.cgi?cid=52283

 

The DWS looks like a solid program -- even though it has no accreditation at this point. But remember, not everyone who teaches at an accredited school has to have a doctorate. The accreditors look at percentages and take into account other forms of preparation. There are people teaching at ATS schools without any kind of doctorate -- especially in the area of ministry practice. So a doctorate from an unaccedited school isn't necessarily an oddity.

However, the NORMAL path to a career teaching at an ATS accredited school is a terminal doctorate in an appropriate field from an accredited school. But there are exceptions. And I would venture to say that most of those exceptions did not really aspire to a seminary career. They were recruited for their unique gifts and accomplishments.

 

I know some colleagues that are studying or have studied at this school. One is the Pastor in charge of worship at a church in Ontario - he speaks highly of the program. He got interested in it when he met one of the teachers at a conference.

The other is Edna Grenz - the wife of the late Stan Grenz. She is the pastor of worship at First Baptist in Vancouver. She also speaks highly of it and would be in a position to compare it with some of the most rigorous programmes.

Migwec

 

Hopefully this thread will completely demythologize the notion by some that Degree Info is "RA or no way."

Good to see another unaccredited institution of higher learning so well regarded by quite a number of posters.

Great discussion, thanks to all!

 

You make some great points, Brad. You have to admire worship profs. who care more about getting the best training they can in worship rather than about whether their training came from accredited schools.

HJ, interesting point about Dr. Grenz wife.

Jimmy, I very much agree that this has been a great discussion. Thanks everybody. It was fun.