Hello, I would appreciate any opinions/insight. I have previously posted about online criminal justice MA/MS degrees. I am currently a police officer and will be promoted to sergeant sometime after January. I was thinking about a criminal justice degree as it would enable me to teach down the road (if that's what I wanted to do) and my department will pay for it. I have been doing a lot of thinking and research (initiated through this site) and stumbled upon Bellevue University with a MA in Leadership. I think the leadership course work would help me in my understanding of the leadership concept which could help me in my professional endeavors. Attaining a Masters would allow me to teach at the bachelors level. I already have a BS in criminal justice so I could draw from my academic and professional experience if I decide to go the teaching route. (Which I am not 100% certain of at this point). What do you see as some functions of a Leadership degree? Is this something worth considering? After speaking to many people, I have come to the realization that I do not want to get a degree just because my department will eventually pay for it. Link: http://www.bellevue.edu/degrees/mldr.asp Thank you!
You should hunt down a member here -- username "friendorfoe" -- and chat with him. He's in law enforcement, too; is finishing his bachelors in criminology; and recently struggled with what kind of masters he wanted to pursue, also. He became extremely enamoured of an MBA program that I suggested to him which is uncharacteristic, as MBA programs go, in that it doesn't have as many typical, hard-and-fast math, finance and statistics courses and has, instead, a much higher concentration on both "leadership," generally, and -- and in my opinion, most importantly -- ethics. In fact, the MBA is called an "MBA in Quality Leadership"; and it's from one of the best (in my opinion) regionally-accredited colleges in the U.S. which have a sophisticated and well-developed distance learning program: St. Joseph's College of Maine (which I've recommended around here so much that some may think I get a commission... which I don't, by the way). I'm not saying you shouldn't go for the "MA in Leadership." I'm just saying that if an MBA ever appealed to you, and if "leadership" is what you want your masters to be largely about, then you could kinda' kill two birds with one stone and go get the "MBA in Quality Leadership" that I'm talking about here and you'd have achieved your goal while simultaneously getting what I consider to be a better overall credential (MBA vs. MA) for business employment purposes. That's just an opinion, mind you... and I could be wrong (my ex-wife will attest that I usually am)... but I'm just sayin'. I mean... I gotta' believe that when it comes to promotions in a police department, an MBA -- especially with words like "in Quality Leadership" behind it -- has got to look pretty good. No? Another masters that I'm completely nuts about, and which seems to me to be a really terrific one when it sits atop a bachelors in criminology, is California University of Pennsylvania's Master of Legal Studies: Law and Public Policy degree. It's regionally-accredited and fully-online. And it's, as I've called it here before, a real honey of a degree. It's even good enough for attorneys with a JD who are contemplating an LLM to get instead. It's really terrific, and given your job, your undergrad degree, and what you were thinking you might want to use it for, I think you should look long and hard at it. All that said, a MA in Leadership is nice, too... and the one from Bellevue that you cite is a perfectly good one. You would certainly not be shooting yourself in the foot to get it. An "MA in Leadership" would look good on your resume for all the reasons you're looking for. It would probably allow you to teach at the undergrad level. And you might end-up loving it. And that's fine. But were I you, I'd rather have "MBA" after my name; and with the St. Joseph's College of Maine MBA in Quality Leadership, you still get to put the "leadership" thing on your resume, to boot! Just a thought. No one said it was a prticularly good thought... but I thought I'd put it out there. Good luck to you!
To teach at the collegiate level, you will need 18 graduate-level credits in the disciplin that you want to teach e.g. you will need a minimum of 18 graduate-level credits in CJ if you want to teach CJ. It is a misnomer to think that a graduate degree in education or in leadership will qualify one to teach anything; instead, it would qualify the candidate to teach education courses or leadership courses.
You may wish to check out Northcentral University's (NCU) masters degree program in organizational leadership. NCU offers a broad array of courses in this specialization and if you should ever wish to pursue a doctorate in Organizational Leadership, the masters degree will considerably shorten the length of time and credits needed to complete the doctorate. The MBA as noted by DesElms is a good option but if you are considering teaching I would go with a program like that offered by NCU which is in the department of education and geared to your career objective; teaching.
http://www.fhsu.edu - online program for an MBA in Leadership... just another option for you. Good Luck, BM.
To give credit where it is due. Gregg posted this program a while back: http://www.sckans.edu/msl/ I like the brevity of the classes and the admissions office is quick to respond. Interestingly they provide a tuition discout to DOD contractors but not to retired military. Kevin
DesElms, I may have missed where you extol the college's benefits, but can you please explain your reasons behind backing the St Joseph's program? I am still looking for a good program (either MBA or something relating to Homeland Security) that can be completed online. Thanks.
DesElms * He became extremely enamoured of an MBA program that I suggested to him which is uncharacteristic, as MBA programs go, in that it doesn't have as many typical, hard-and-fast math, finance and statistics courses and has, instead, a much higher concentration on both "leadership," generally, and -- and in my opinion, most importantly -- ethics. In fact, the MBA is called an "MBA in Quality Leadership"; and it's from one of the best (in my opinion) regionally-accredited colleges in the U.S. which have a sophisticated and well-developed distance learning program: St. Joseph's College of Maine (which I've recommended around here so much that some may think I get a commission... which I don't, by the way). * Thank you for the link. This program seems very interesting and I will defintely look into it. As I have no interest in taking accounting classes - it seems on the mark for what I am looking for in regards to leadership (NOT to be confused with management...I hate that term. As I have read "You lead people, you manage things"). Thanks again! The only negative thing I see is a 2 week residency. meagain - Regarding the 16 hours of graduate work in CJ, I have not heard of this. I know of many retired officers/command staff from my department who teach CJ at the community college/public college level with Masters in Public Administration. This may be different in other parts of the country? Thank you to everyone else for your suggestions. This board is truly a resource!
It might be more interesting for you (and it would certainly be easier for me if you)read some of the threads where' we've talked about it and where, by hook or by crook, you'll be able to read all my reasons why I like the SJCME MBA in Quality Leadership (and SJCME, generally). http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19972 http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20788 http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20904 http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20802 In some of those threads you'll read posts by some very smart people who disagree with me. Be sure you carefully consider their points, too. The Master of Legal Studies: Law and Public Policy program from California University of Pennsylvania that I mentioned earlier in this thread has a sibling that might interest you: Master of Legal Studies: Homeland Security. Believe me, it's just as top-notch as its Law and Public Policy sibling. Here's the curriculum; and here are the course descriptions. And definitely read the program's FAQ. It's just my opinion, mind you, but you'll be hard-pressed to find a better regionally-accredited homeland security masters out there than that one. If I had the slightest interest in homeland security, that would be my choice. But if I ever got a CUP masters, it would be the Law and Public Policy version of the degree. Actually, in part because it's so beautiful and relaxing there, a lot of people actually end-up glad it was required. I wouldn't dismiss it over that. SJCME has been doing this forced summer intensive thing with pretty much all their distance learning programs for a while, now... and they've got it down to a science. Don't think of it as this this pain-in-the-rear thing you gotta' do for a week or two; rather, think of it as the fastest 3 to 6 semester hours of credit you ever earned (unless, of course, you took a 6-hour-equivalent CLEP or something)... and in a place that so pretty you'll be glad you went there just as a cool place to go. It's 18 hours, not 16. And what he's talking about is not specific to CJ. It's something that many regionally-accredited colleges/universities in state/public systems (and many private ones, too) require of their profs. We'll just use CJ as an example: In order to teach CJ at the undergrad level at some instituions, your masters needs to have within it at least 18 semester hours of coursework that's directly, unmistakably and unambiguously in the specific area of crminial justice. So, if it's a 36-hour masters, that's about half its courses. me again's point is that an MBA is, by design, fairly broad; and that, therefore, an MBA is not really an academic degree so much as it's a broadly-based professional type credential -- one that probably lacks 18 hours of coursework in any one very narrow area -- and so, therefore, may not be a good teaching credential at the undergrad level. And he's right in some cases. But there are MBAs (who don't also have some other masters, or a doctorate) teaching undergrad business courses at regionally-accredited schools. The rule's not hard and fast. That said, me again makes an excellent point. If one really thinks one would like to teach at the undergrad level, the safest masters to get would be one that's more academic... like a Master of Science in Whatever; or a Master of Arts in Whatever; or a Master of Whatever, rather than an MBA. The MBA may be marginally better for getting promotions in the police department, but it's not as much an academic credential of the type that would qualify one to teach at the undergrad level as many institutions would prefer. If me again's right, though; and if "Leadership" is the word you somehow want behind your "Master of Arts in...", or your "Master of Science in...", or your Master of...", then maybe the program that Fed pointed-out (which I originally told everyone about here, but plum forgot about it for purposes of this thread) would be a better choice. Southwestern College of Winfield Kansas is right up there next to SJCME in my mind; I'm a real fan. Their Master of Science in Leadership is both relatively new -- at least as something that can be gotten online from Southwestern -- and of very high quality. It's not as nicely priced as the MBA in Quality Leadership from SJCME, but it's probably still quite worth it. Be sure to take a long, hard look at the degree's courses.
Duquesne offers quite a few leadership concentrations online. The price is a little bit high, not out of line though. http://www.leadership.duq.edu/home/main.cfm?SID=94
DesElms, Again thank you for your advice. Both St. Joseph's and Southwestern seem on track for what I am looking for regarding qualitative vs. quanitative. At this point, I am not sure if teaching is the route I want to go. Therefore, I do not want to put all my eggs in a CJ Masters basket. The Leadership based degrees seem that they will help professionally and also open doors down the road if I decide to leave law enforcement after I am eligible for retirement (almost 12 years away ). As far as DL CJ Masters programs go, the only one that really appeals to me is Michigan State's. It seems to have more of a management concentration whereas other programs are more academic. I want a degree that I can use day to day. As always thank you all for your advice. Obtaining a Master's degree is not something I will take lightly. Given the amount of time and effort that it will take to complete, I want to make sure that it will fit my needs for personal enrichment, professional success, and future opportunities.
When you finally begin whatever masters program you choose, remember that each course will be harder and more time-consuming than were your undergrad courses. For each three-semester-hour undergrad course over a sixteen-week semester in which one enrolls, one will spend a combined total of from 150 to 200 clock hours either in class or studying. Given that the typical person working a 40-hour-per-week full-time job works 640 hours in sixteen weeks, a 12-hour (four course) undergrad courseload is equivalent to a full-time job. For each three-semester-hour graduate-lelvel course over a sixteen-week semester in which one enrolls, one will spend a combined total of from 200 to 250 clock hours either in class or studying. Given that the typical person working a 40-hour-per-week full-time job works 640 hours in sixteen weeks, a 9-hour (three class) graduate courseload is equivalent to a full-time job. Don't overdo it. Cops already work long hours; and they're stressful hours (usually in ways with which many cops are not fully in touch), to boot... which makes them, in terms of the toll it takes on the cop, seem even longer. If you try masters-level study on top of being a cop, and if you don't properly pace yourself, you'll run the risk of short-changing your decompression time, and your family time (and, yes, those are -- or at least should be -- two different things... never combine them). Don't either burn-out on school before it's finished; or emerge from it with a diploma in one hand, and a divorce decree in the other. Just my $.02 worth... which my ex-wife will tell you is all it's worth.
Great suggestions, particularly from DesElms. But, to give you a simple answer to your original question, I do know two individuals in the Bellevue M.A. in Leadership program, and both of these folks are very happy with both the quality of education and the program in general. They’ve described it as rigorous, relevant to current work experiences, and very focused on the subjects of leadership and applied ethics. The school is responsive, flexible, and very student focused. I’m not trying to play the role of Bellevue “apologist”. I’m actually planning on enrolling in the St. Joseph’s MBA program that DesElms is so impressed with after I finish the undergrad through Bellevue (I visited the area recently, and I can attest to its beauty – well worth the residency). Strictly a personal choice. However, I do wonder sometimes why Bellevue gets such little mention or regard on this board; they’re 100% DL, affordable, and offer quality RA accredited programs. Dave
If you’re entertaining MBAs (for the reasons that DesElms identifies) you might also take a look at Touro’s MBA with concentration in Strategic Leadership. It’s a fairly new entry, I think. (They haven’t yet corrected the font in the header of the description.) A marginal point: “Strategic Leadership” might have a small advantage in some career contexts of appearing to straddle both leadership and strategy. That of course brings me to my usual refrain: if you can clarify the long-term goals, the field of options will narrow. Do you really want to teach, or consult, or train, etc? Whom do you ideally want to impact? And with what content? In addition to the NCU MEd that simon mentioned, NCU also has an MBA in Organizational Leadership that draws on pretty much the same pool of courses. Interestingly, both of the NCU programs seem to let you take at least 18 credits in unmistakably OL courses. Now, though leadership seems to be on the rise as a topic and specialization in grad programs, I have some purely intuitional qualms about how many actual teaching slots will be around down the road in the leadership realm. I would look at NCU’s MBA program with 18-credit CJ specialization (you may well have commented on that in an earlier post but my search struck out). It seemed quirky to me at first, but now Ah see the light. Back to leadership. It’s is a funny discipline. It’s a sexy topic, and in fact I've been eyeing NCU’s PhD in OL covetously. I’ve known a couple people who were very drawn to the academic pursuit of leadership, but then had their thirst slaked within a small number of courses. You might find that a couple hours in academic texts like this chunky boy help calibrate your interest. Leadership in Organizations, 6th Gary Yukl http://vig.pearsoned.ca/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0131494848-TOC,00.html
A bit of a cheaper link: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ISBN=0131494848&pdf=y get it used and save a bundle
So I guess with a promotion and baby on the way within the next two months, are you saying that this wouldn't be the best time to commence graduate studies. BTW my wife agrees . Thank you all again for the sage advice. For now, I will look into the links of texts and continue to check up on this board. I am really impressed with the help I have received. What a fantastic resource!
Doug, an excellent post with very valuable recomendations. In particular, your observations regarding pursing a degree in the discipline of Organizational leadership is relevant and gives pause to all who are aspiring to obtain an advanced degree in this specialization. OL interfaces and overlaps with some of the aspects of Industrial/organizational Psychology, Organizational Behavior and Psychology. Therefore, coursework in this area is very attractive and tempting due to the interesting content of this subject matter and its applicability to our daily work lives. Does it suffice as a terminal degree in terms of marketability and enhancement of our professional image and portfolio? Questionable perhaps within the context of academia and in certain business related work environments. However, for the individual who is performing private consultations a doctorate or MBA with an OL focus may provide one who possesses appropriate experiential background in business of management an added dimension that may enhance their overall professional presentation and marketability. Simon
