Excelsior Lower and Upper Credit Overlap

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by beholdweb, Nov 28, 2005.

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  1. beholdweb

    beholdweb New Member

    Hi Everyone,

    Does anybody know whether Excelsior will grant credit for BOTH lower AND upper level exams in the same subject?

    Example:

    DANTES Human Resource Management 3-credits LOWER.
    ECE Human Resource Management 3-credits UPPER.

    I don't see why they wouldn't allow credit for both exams since it is commonplace in B&M schools to take a single subject in the freshman year for lower credit and then take a more advanced course in the same subject later for upper level credit.

    Anyway, I thought I would check and see if anyone knows one way or the other about this.

    Thanks as always,
    Beholdweb
     
  2. beholdweb

    beholdweb New Member

    Anyone?
     
  3. In this case I doubt they'd allow the overlap - both are pretty general, even the ECE version (which I took).

    Of course, if you're enrolled you should consult with your advisor and get a written response.

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  4. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    The nature of "upper" and "lower" designations precludes duplication of credit. That is; an upper level course/exam in literature can not, by its nature, also be a lower level course in literature.

    Therefor, credit would likely be granted for both because there is no overlap.

    Excelsior does has some specific policies though about credit level. One is that introductory courses are not considered upper level even if they're numbered as such and another is that community college courses are not considered upper level even when the material/subject may well have been.

    Never hurts to send the scores/transcripts in though -- even if you suspect they won't accept it for your needs. :)
     
  5. beholdweb

    beholdweb New Member

    Hi Coach,

    Yes, this is what I was thinking too. It seems to make sense that upper level credit in a subject would not be considered overlap with the lower credit version. Even if the material covered is the same and the title of the credit is the same, the DEPTH of understanding required to pass the upper level course/exam would be different. If not, there would seem to be no reason for ACE to assess one version to be lower level and the other to be upper level.

    My thought was that if I am studying a subject deeply enough to pass the upper level (usually ECE exam), then I could also make use of that knowledge to first pass the lower level version as well.

    Human Resource Management, Lifespan Development Psychology, Ethics, and Organizational Behavior are the exams that would fit this description. Why earn 12 credits when you can earn 24 in the process of studying for the advanced level exams? That's my reasoning.

    It would only cost $240 to take the four additional DSST exams (and zero additional study since I will already have studied the subjects well enough to take the upper level versions). I'm already saving a bunch of money on my car insurance at Geico....oops sorry! I don't know where that came from. I meant to say, I'm already saving a bunch of money by testing out of courses, so I don't think $240 is too much in the big scheme of things.

    So, unless somebody can say categorically that Excelsior will not accept both upper and lower credits, I think it is worthwhile sitting the extra exams...and then seeing what Excelsior will allow when the time comes.

    Thanks for the input,
    Beholdweb
     
  6. LiveFromHouston

    LiveFromHouston New Member

    Hello again, Beholdweb.

    I was told by a business advisor that Ethics is the only DSST/ECE combination that does not overlap. If you take both, the ECE Ethics will count as upper-level credit towards your advanced business core, whereas the DSST will apply as lower-level humanities.

    A good point was raised here: you would think that if the exams were different enough for the ACE to classify one as upper-level and the other as lower-level, they might be different enough to merit credit for both. However, IMHO, the overlap is substantial and awarding credit for both would be too gratuitous to maintain academic integrity.

    An admissions advisor told me that ECE grades cannot be removed from an Excelsior transcript and usually override any DSST equivalents. I don't believe this is accurate, as the Student Handbook says that any grade can be deleted from your transcript prior to conferral. Can anyone confirm? (I would like to take ECE English Composition, but have the option to suppress the score in the event of a 'C' like so many have reported.)

    As always, YMMV. Let us know!
     
  7. How about ECE College Writing? Others have reported that it's a much easier exam, and one which yields a higher grade. For the difference in price you could make up the 3 credits with a CLEP like Analyzing and Interpreting Literature which is a much easier 'A'.

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  8. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    IMHO, it would be inappropriate (and probably academically dishonest) for Excelsior College to exclude their own course or exam from their own transcript.

    It's one thing to suppress a grade that is transferring from somewhere else -- another entirely to suppress a grade from in-house.
     
  9. LiveFromHouston

    LiveFromHouston New Member

    Hey Mark,

    I am having a hard time deciding between the two. Actually, I registered for ECE English Composition before learning about the College Writing exam (you know, Excelsior and their outdated materials), but I understand this is easily changed. The idea of 6 hours versus 3 is appealing, but not at the expense of a reduced GPA due to a 'C'. I have already met the Humanities requirement, and I have taken all of the CLEP and DSST exams that I would consider easy. Changing to the College Writing exam would mean another exam (I'm thinking CLEP Sociology, as it is pass/fail and purported to be easy).

    Has anyone received an 'A' on English Composition? Is an 'A' truly more likely on the new College Writing exam?

    Anyone know of Excelsior allowing an ECE exam (or an Excelsior class, for that matter) to count as pass/fail?

    (Sorry to hijack the thread.)
     
  10. LiveFromHouston

    LiveFromHouston New Member

    I do think that DL students have an unfair advantage in this regard and can essentially 'manipulate' their GPA by selectively choosing which courses to transfer, using an inordinate amount of pass/fail credit, etc., however, I do not see how it is dishonest to expect the same standard to apply for all standardized exams (DSST, CLEP, TECEP).

    I find this especially ironic when ECE exams can be retaken after just 60 days whereas the others require a 6-month waiting period. This gives even more incentive to take the more expensive ECE exam for the sake of GPA manipulation.

    IMHO, this has more to do with $ than with academic integrity, just as many have speculated that the Business Strategy and Operations exams were discontinued to encourage the more expensive WebCT alternatives.
     
  11. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    So:

    I take an ECE exam and don't score as high as I'd like. I have paid Excelsior for the exam and it appears on my Excelsior transcript.

    Then, since I don't like that earlier score, I take the CLEP equivalent to that ECE. I pay Excelsior nothing (except my regular annual fee) and it appears on my transcript.

    Then, just for fun, I take the DANTES equivalent exam and it too appears on my Excelsior transcript.

    How did this scenario make any more $ for Excelsior as implied in the statement:

    What it really has to do with is generally accepted practice at most colleges and universities that goes something like:

    We don't have to transcript classes and exams you take somewhere else unless we want to; but we will report those you take with us.
     
  12. LiveFromHouston

    LiveFromHouston New Member

    "ECE exams can be retaken after just 60 days whereas the others require a 6-month waiting period. This gives even more incentive to take the more expensive ECE exam for the sake of GPA manipulation."

    Retaking an ECE exam to score a higher grade = more $. I suppose it applies more in the event where a student has first taken a non-ECE test and then opts to take an ECE knowing that a) the non-ECE CLEP or DSST can be removed and b) even in the event of a low ECE score, the ECE test could be taken again in just 60 days.

    Actually, I had an Excelsior advisor tell me that the 60 day rule only applied for tests that were failed; if you passed and just wanted to improve your score, you could re-sit for the exam immediately! :eek: For my own sake I will assume this is false.


    No denying that, but a 'generally accepted' practice that appears to be more of a meritless double standard is infuriating, especially from a not-for-profit instituion.
     
  13. beholdweb

    beholdweb New Member

    Hi LiveFromHouston,

    Thank you very much for your update.

    In my mind, an upper credit course, by definition, requires a more in-depth understanding of the material already studied for the lower level course. Of course there is going to be overlap: The UL course is built on the foundational knowledge learned in the LL course.

    If there is sufficient difference between two exams for ACE to classify one as LL and the other as UL, then I don't understand why both exams should not be counted as separate credit (3UL and 3LL). The reverse side of that is: If there is insufficient difference for each exam to be counted as separate credit, then surely there is also insufficient difference for ACE to classify one exam as LL while the other is classified as UL.

    Something seems wrong with this!

    Either ACE is wrong for classifying them as UL and LL when the material covered is insufficiently different, or Excelsior is wrong for refusing to allow both exams when ACE clearly recognize sufficient difference between the two.

    Surely the exams can't be both sufficiently different and sufficiently similar at the same time!

    But I don't make the rules, I just have to follow them regardless of whether they make sense or not.

    Oh well! This just means I will have to find a couple of alternative exams to take instead. At least I found out sooner rather than later.

    Thanks again LiveFrom,
    Beholdweb
     
  14. beholdweb

    beholdweb New Member

    Get your own thread biyatch. :p

    Actually Livefrom, I have heard that the TECEP 'English Composition I' exam fulfills the Excelsior Written English requirement...and it gets transcripted as pass/fail.

    It's even more expensive than an Excelsior exam, but if it will allow you to fulfill WER AND maintain your GPA, then it may be worth considering.

    Can anyone confirm or deny this information?

    Let us know,
    Beholdweb
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2005
  15. Well, it's been over a year since I took it, but I can confirm that it met my WER and yielded a "pass" in my transcript.

    It's also dead easy. I posted some thoughts on this TECEP on my forum should anyone be interested.

    Had College Writing been available back then I might have considered it but there was no way I was risking my GPA with ECE English Comp.

    Cheers,
    Mark
     

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