Advice on Theological Seminaries

I have made tentative plans to begin seminary studies in Fall of 2002. Unfortunately, I feel that I am not ready academically for seminary(at least traditional programs). I am mostly interested in ATS accredited programs. Would you recommend Southern Christian University's M.Div program, considering the lack of ATS accreditation(or other non ATS DL M.Div programs). What would be a cost effective solution for someone who does not feel that he is academically ready for seminary and three more years of a traditional program? I would appreciate comments from Russell Morris, Tom Head, and others. Thank you.

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Sam C
www.uci.edu
UCI 2002
[email protected]
Confusion is just the path to insight and knowledge

 

Even if I did decide to enroll in a traditional three year program, a big concern is <B>cost effectiveness.</B> Any recommendations? (My main choice for a traditional program is Talbot School of Theology at Biola University because of proximity to my house).

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Sam C
www.uci.edu
UCI 2002
[email protected]
Confusion is just the path to insight and knowledge

 

Just curious, specifically for ordination in the PCUSA(Presbyterian Church USA), PCA(Presbyterian Church in America), or CRC(Christian Reformed Church), would it be advisable to hold ONLY an M.Div from Southern Christian University(or other solely DL M.Div program)? What would the perception among clergy be of a DL M.Div? What do you think, Mr. Morris(and others)?

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Sam C
www.uci.edu
UCI 2002
[email protected]
Confusion is just the path to insight and knowledge

 

Sam,

First, I think any M.Div. program which is accredited (e.g., RA, ATS, GAAP, TRACS) has merit and value. Perceptions will vary, depending on whose company you find yourself, as to which accreditation is the best. There may be scenarios where an ATS degree is required (e.g., to enter certain ATS doctoral programs, ordination within certain groups). However, a RA or GAAP degree will have very few limitations. The TRACS degree may experience slightly more difficulty in terms of broad utility.

Second, why do you feel you are not "academically ready" for a traditional seminary program, but feel you could do well academically in a DL program. The DL program (if it is properly accredited) is going to be as rigorous academically as a traditional program--in some respects even more so, i.e., personal discipline, self-motivation, lack of face to face interaction, etc.

Third, in terms of how a DL M.Div. will be perceived by your peers, this is a subjective issue. There will no doubt always be those who view DL as somehow substandard, however, this is a stigma which is slowly changing. Methodology is a perennial debate. The main criteria here is earning a properly accredited degree.

Russell

 

Just some advise from the back-pew - if you don't feel ready academically don't dive into a program that (option A) is going to tax you beyond your limits or (option B) is not going to tax you but will give you a degree of little value.

The church is one of the few organizations that allows you to test drive senior management positions What I mean is you can get involved in a number of aspects of the organization (e.g., ministries, committees, etc.) at all levels of leadership.

I understand your questions/concerns - I am strongly considering going to seminary (with a toddler, another on the way and having just paid off my undergraduate and graduate student loans). But don't get caught up in the mindset that all learning that is valued leads to a piece of paper (and this is coming from a "professional student").

In fact I'm of the mind that our churches would be stronger if more pastors experienced life on the other side of the pulpit prior to entering the ministry! This is an chance for some non-traditional (and free) learning - grab onto opportunities within your church to learn ministry skills while serving.

Chal-ga yeo
Jeff

PS you could also check if seminaries near you offer short modular courses
PPS make sure they transfer/count towards your ultimate goal of an MDiv.

 

First, this is an excellent question. I wish I had an excellent answer, but I'll do what I can.

My understanding is that Southern Christian University's M.Div. program is designed to meet ordination requirements of the Church of Christ; when I looked at the United Methodist Church requirements for M.Div. equivalency, I was vaguely unsatisfied that SCU would meet some of the requirements. I wish I could remember more specific details.

IMHO, Southern Christian University's M.Div. should provide a more than adequate academic foundation in pastoral ministry; my concerns have to do with its theology and Bible components. Specifically, I don't remember seeing a biblical language requirement, which most Presbyterian denominations would probably expect to see.

My other concern has to do with denomination-specific requirements. In particular, the Church of Christ as I understand it tends to bear a strong theological resemblance to the Free Methodist churches; while PCUSA is fairly broad, other Presbyterian denominations will probably want you to take additional coursework in Reformed theology.

Then again, most denominations give bishops the option of waiving certain ordination requirements if s/he believes that the candidate has undertaken equivalent training.

The best advice, IMHO: Contact the denominations directly by telephone and ask what they would expect to see in a given M.Div. program (if you can't get a straight answer on that point, ask what constitutes M.Div. equivalency). My contact at the United Methodist Conference was extremely helpful and straightforward about their denominational requirements.

Good luck, and please keep me posted!


Cheers,

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Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Gordon-Conwell, www.gcts.edu, in Mass., has a program where you can do most of your first year's work via DL. Very sound doctrinally and academically.

 

Thank you all for your excellent advice.

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Sam C
www.uci.edu
UCI 2002
[email protected]
Confusion is just the path to insight and knowledge

 

By the way, Gordon-Conwell has strong ties to the Presbyterian church. Some of their professors belong to the Presbyterian camp, as do many of their students. I spent a period of time attending a PCUSA church in Virginia; both of our pastors were graduates of Gordon-Conwell. So, cleary a degree from Gordon-Conwell could easily meet the requirements for ordination in the PCUSA.

In addition, of course Reformed Theological Seminary has strong PCUSA ties. You can do a great deal of work at a distance with Reformed, including their online MAR and their summer/winter MA, which entails about half of the program being completed through distance learning and the other half through modular courses.

 

If I remember correctly, the G-CTS distance courses come rather reasonably priced. The RTS courses are considerably more expensive. Yet, they offer a couple of schemes by which you can benefit from a significant tuition discount.

 

Covenant Seminary in St. Louis belongs to the PCA, doesn't it? Anyhow, a degree from this institution might be deemed acceptable for PCUSA ordination. They offer some very good things by way of DL. Their courses appear to be rather affordable.

 

Reformed Therological Seminary actually has minimal ties to the PCUSA; these days, their emphasis is more in line with the PCA.

This is an important consideration for persons seeking ordination in either denomination, since each of them would consider a graduate from the opposite end akin to an Oral Roberts grad seeking ordination in a Fundie church or a BJU grad seeking to become ordained in the Assemblies of God. Those things just don't happen. (I realize that these are esoteric points to those not in theology, but PCA'ers go nuts about them.)

Incidentally, Reformed has one of the best DL programs around, and was the first seminary to have its external M.A. quasi-approved by the somewhat anti-DL Association of Theolgical Seminaries in the U.S. and Canada. (ATS is the DOE/CHEA-approved accreditor for graduate schools of theology and divinity schools.) Their prestige level is akin to Westminster Seminary, but they differ from Westminster (which is primarily OP, although there are several PCA'ers there) in that their approach to apologetics is evidential rather than presuppositional.

(Anecdotal note: On applications for approval by the OPC denomination, the question actually appears, "Does your school teach that VanTilian Presuppositionalism is the only acceptable form of apologetics?" Westminster qualifies for OPC training, but RTS does not. But since I'm an evidentialist, I don't give a phuque. Especially since RTS boasts having R.C. Sproul and Ronald Nash, two of the leading evidential apologists on their faculty at the Florida campus, where their DL operations are based.)

Finally, a word for the uninitiated (since we don't want to become too exclusivistic here) . . . The PCUSA is the Presbyterian Church in the United States, which is the liberal wing of Presbyterianism. The PCA is the Presbyterian Church in America, the conservative wing that was created when several PCUSA congregations broke away after the PCUSA started ordaining women and speaking out against the Viet Nam conflict. The OPC is the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, similar to the PCA but much older, more passé, and made up of VanTilian Presuppositional numbnuts.

(And, in case anyone is wondering, I am none of the above.)

 

I second this. As someone who has been around RTS seminarians for pretty much all his life, I can say that RTS is about as conservative as a Reformed seminary can be without teaching infant damnation.


Cheers,

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Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

My apologies. I stand corrected.

 

CL --

No correction intended! In fact, you were absolutely correct--although RTS is rather conservative, it is ecumenical by charter and attracts folks from a wide variety of religious backgrounds. And it definitely has strong historical ties to the PCUSA.

Sorry--didn't realize Steve's post was a response, or I wouldn't have been quite so emphatic.


Peace,

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Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

I seek that piece of paper that is regionally accredited. That piece of paper has opened doors for me that would otherwise have been closed. Those who hold certain pieces of paper are elevated to a higher esteem by our society.

I guess I’m mixing apples and oranges. You were talking about the true spirit of learning while I was talking about the god-like prestige that is associated with degrees. There is a difference between the two and each serves its own purpose.

 

me again,
I certainly didn't mean to down play the need for recognized learning. I was responding to Sam's reference to not feeling ready to enter an academic programme immediately.
Don't worry, I am a firm believer in academic learning and the doors it can open and the skills it develops.

Jeff

 

I know! I was just thinking out loud!

 

I didn't realize that by having three RA degrees and being a GAAP Ph.D. student, that I ranked among the gods. Dr. Bear needs to include a chapter in the 15th edition (I am assuming there will be one) titled, Degrees: Nectar of the Gods!

Russell

 

I have been told I have a body like a Greek God........Bacchus.

North