Spurgeon's or University of the Free State: Opinions Requested!

The head of the Church History department at the University of the Free State has agreed to supervise me in pursuing a master's degree in Baptist/Anabaptist history and doctrine. As some of you may recall, I was interested in Spurgeon's MTh degree in this same area. The advantage of Spurgeon's is that it is a Baptist school; the U. of the Free State theology department is, I believe, largely Dutch Reformed, as is the professor I would be studying with. An advantage of Free State is cost--about $1000; Spurgeon's cost is about $3500. There is a possibility I could incorporate some original poetry into both degrees, as supporting and strengthening the main argument(s).

For those of you who are still interested in my meanderings , which of these schools do you think you'd choose and why?

I'll appreciate any input!

BTW, the two schools I contacted about MPhil's in Applied Theology haven't replied yet.

 

Michael,

If money is no obstacle and you are more comfortable with Baptist theology, then Spurgeon's is the route. However, if tuition is a factor and you don't mind working within the parameters of Dutch Reformed theology, then UFS is the route. It depends on your circumstances and what you want.

Russell

 

Russell,

That's true; thanks!

I was also wondering about the reputation/quality of the two schools--how would they compare?

 

Michael,
Have you found the Spurgeon's people at all encouraging? When I inquired about a Ph.D. program, the dean there very much discouraged me from pursuing a British degree unless I had a M.Th. When I inquired about the M.Th. in Anabaptist studies, they still thought I would be better off staying with a US program. Needless to say, this was very off-putting.

I graduated, with honors, with a M.Div. with thesis from a US RA school.

While I have not crossed Spurgeon's off my list, the GST route is looking better and better.

 

Craig,

Well, I guess I would say I have found them encouraging sometimes and not very encouraging at other times; I had to be very persistent and thoroughly explain my situation. On the other hand, I have found such schools as the University of Zululand very encouraging and welcoming.

Could I ask, from which school did you get your MDiv?

 

I would have to agree 100% with this counsel.

 

Ashland Theological Seminary, in Ashland, Ohio (affiliated with the Brethren Church).

 

As Spurgeon's sole American MTh candidate, I think I can shed a little light on your experience. First, if the dean with whom you spoke was who I'm guessing he was, then the negative overtones of his response would come as no real surprise to me. I am of the opinion that Spurgeon's academic dean, who was also my Ethics professor, is a bit more cynical and hard to please than other members of the faculty. I think it's fair to say that his opinions might not reflect most accurately the prevalent views held by the Spurgeon's faculty.

When I inquired about the MTh in Applied Theology, in which I have been enrolled since 1998, the Applied Theology course director, Peter Stevenson, responded very optimistically and enthusiastically. He seemed quite pleased by the thought of an American student taking interest in the MTh Applied Theology program. I rolled right through the admission process without any complication, and nothing was ever said about my coming from overseas (of course, the MTh in Applied Theology includes students who are resident in Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Germany, Finland, France, and Ghana, so someone coming from a considerable distance was nothing new).

In fact, I know that Spurgeon's has actively sought to recruit American students. Within the last couple of years, Martin Selman, NT professor, was sent to the States to visit various institutions (including Wheaton, Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond, and a few others) for the purpose of promoting Spurgeon's master's and PhD programs. The folks at Spurgeon's with whom I am acquainted seemed to express disappointment when this visit produced no visible fruit.

In the course of my enrollment with Spurgeon's, I believe that there have been three American students working on Spurgeon's PhD's at a distance. My understanding has been that, as a matter of policy, they are welcoming of such students, regardless of what any one member of faculty might think of the arrangement.

I do wonder if the difficulty the dean has given you about entering PhD study with an MDiv qualification doesn't in some way relate to prior experiences they've had with American PhD candidates. I know that in recent years, one American gentleman who was pursuing a PhD in OT after completing only an American MDiv, struggled quite a bit to rise to the academic level demanded of PhD research students. While he was permitted to continue as a PhD student, I think there was general consensus that he would have been better off having earned a ThM before attempting PhD research. It could be that experiences like this have soured certain members of the faculty toward the notion of accepting MDiv's into their PhD program.

I hope that these insights help to shed some positive light on your encounter with Spurgeon's.

 

I've shared these views in a couple of other discussion threads, but I'll reiterate them here briefly.

University of the Free State is a fine institution, in fact probably one of South Africa's better providers of theological education. They seem to have established strong international links, particularly with institutions in North America and the Netherlands. However, Free State's links have been exclusively within Reformed circles. Here in North America you'd likely find evidence of such links at places like the Institute for Christian Studies in Toronto, or Calvin Seminary.

Spurgeon's, on the other hand, as you know, is a Baptist institution. It is the largest Baptist theological school in the UK and Europe. Here in North America, it has formal ties to Beeson Divinity School in Alabama and Central Baptist Seminary in Kansas City. Former Spurgeon's principals have held, or currently hold, faculty positions at institutions such as Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Northern Baptist Theological Seminary. One former Spurgeons' pricipal, the late George Beasley-Murray, wrote what is widely celebrated as one of the all-time most significant texts articulating a Baptist view of baptism, "Baptism in the New Testament". Spurgeon's has established a formal partnership with the well-respected International Baptist Theological Seminary in Prague, Czech Republic. Of course, Spurgeon's was founded 145 years ago by one of the most celebrated Baptists of all time. His name is recognized throughout the world.

So, if you desire to concentrate your studies in the area of Baptist studies, which name would you prefer for your resume to bear?

 

Free State isn't a bad school, but I second the previous comments; it's very Reformed. While this is unlikely to affect your actual educational experience too profoundly (like Potch, they're probably fairly liberal when it comes to people of other traditions), you're going to be carrying around a degree that is extremely prestigious in Reformed circles, and may very well scream "Reformed" in certain other circles. Then again, the fact that the degree will actually be in Anabaptist/Baptist studies might redeem that reputation point.

Re not getting responses from the schools offering an MPhil in applied theology: you might try the International Office if you've been contacting the theology department, or the theology department if you've been contacting the International Office, or the Research Office if neither of them respond.


Good luck!


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Many thanks to all of you who replied!

 

Well, I think that if cost is a factor and UFS is willing to supervise you in an area you are intersted in then I would pursue that degree. I have gorgotten what your inteded use was for the degree. If it is for a purpose other than self satisfaction and prep for doctoral work then I would check with the folks where you intend to put the degree to work and see which one they like better.

Just based on the two names of the schools, I would say UFS has a more secular academic (with a theology dept) sound to the name and obviously Spurgeon has more of a religious college sound to it.

You seemd to have done a very detailed search for a suitable program. Let us know what you settle on.

North

 

North,

I'm glad to hear from you on this.

I want to use the degree in preparation for doctoral study; I would like to teach in a college or seminary, and I would also like to use my degrees in a ministry setting--pastoral or otherwise.

 

Of course, I agree with this. Yet, bear in mind that the degree isn't actually conferred by Spurgeon's, but by the University of Wales, an institution with a solid "secular academic" name and global reputation.

While the name of the University of the Free State doesn't contain any religious references, to those who are well-versed in the global theological scene, the name certainly will conjur up images of Reformed theology. This is true of other institutions, as well, such as Free University, Amsterdam or the University of Utrecht. One simply can't hear these names without thinking of their rich Reformed traditions. A good experiment to help accentuate this point would be to do a search of how many professors at Baptist institutions in the US have degrees from Free University, Amsterdam. I am confident that the number is likely to be very close to zero.

So, if you are looking to gain a degree from an institution with a theologically "neutral" name, I would suggest that the University of Wales poses a more promising option.

In defense of this position, I must draw attention to the fact that the University of Wales validates theological institutions of various confessional persuasions (including non-denominational evangelical, Reformed, Anglican, Roman Catholic). In addition, in the various constituent colleges of the University of Wales that have theological faculties (Lampeter, Cardiff, Bangor, and I believe one or two others), the approach to theological education is very broad, inclusive and non-confessional. Thus, a degree in theology from the University of Wales implies participation in a colorful and diverse tradition of theological education.

 

In addition, I think that some emphasis needs to be given to issues of curriculum here. While Free State may be willing to provide supervision in the area of Baptist and Anabaptist studies, they possess no expertise in this area. Thus, they are not well-suited to make suggestions about what topics you should study, what issues you should be familiarizing yourself with, what key texts you should be interacting with. Essentially, there is no one present on the UFS faculty who can assist you in cultivating an expertise in this area, for no one on the faculty possesses such an expertise.

At Spurgeon's, on the other hand, there already exists a curriculum in Baptist and
Anabaptist studies that has been prepared by experts and reviewed for approval by the relevent authorities of the University of Wales. Ian Randall and Stuart Murray are both first-rate Baptist scholars. They already possess far more knowledge about this subject area than they will ever be able to impart to you.

By way of analogy, let's say you wanted to undertake graduate study about environmental issues in Tierra del Fuego on the southern tip of Argentina. You narrowed your field of potential graduate institutions to two: one in Argentina, and the other in Iceland. Obviously, the Argentine institution would pose greater promise in helping you really dig into this area of research. To choose the Icelandic institution simply because of a negligible difference in cost would be an unfortunate decision.

In my estimation, choosing UFS over Spurgeon's for the purpose of studying Baptist and Anabaptist studies is quite similar. Theologically, UFS simply is too far away from the subject area to ever provide you as substantial an education as Spurgeon's could.

 

In my experience as a Baptist minister, my affiliation with Spurgeon's College has been a tremendous asset to me. Baptist folks are always intrigued by the fact that I am attending the school founded by the "Prince of Preachers."

Within the larger academic community, I certainly feel that I benefit from being able to say that I am enrolled with an institution the calibre of the University of Wales. However, specifically as a Baptist academic, my credibility has been bolstered immensely by my affiliation with Spurgeon's College.

So, if your goals are to engage in Baptist ministry and to establish yourself as an academic expert in Baptist studies, affiliation with an institution bearing a cleary religious title like "Spurgeon's" likely will not be a hindrance to you, but rather an asset. Possession of a "secular academic" credential (even though you would possess such a credential with the University of Wales) may not be so critical for someone like you who desires a very focused preparation with very focused goals in mind.

 

CL,

Thanks for that analysis.

I just received e-mail from the professor who was to be my supervisor at UFS; he said he was sorry but that, due to a very heavy work load, he was having to turn me over to another professor who would supervise me.

I find that interesting since late last week he was willing, apparently, to supervise me. I've been wondering if his decision might possibly have anything to do with the fact that in my latest e-mail I reminded him that I would be interested in pursuing a degree in Anabaptist/Baptist Studies.

Well, anyway, I'm rethinking all of this.

Something new and encouraging: I've just heard from the dean of the theology faculty at the University of Pretoria; he was interested in exploring the possibility of my incorporating a creative component into a master's degree. In fact, he said he was excited about it and would like to have me as his student. This is encouraging since he is also a hymn writer and published poet. His name is Professor C.J.A. Vos. Do you know anything about him?

The U. of Pretoria also seems to be more ecumenical than UFS; this is a fairly recent development. They have established ties with a Baptist seminary, as well as schools of other denominations, and they seem committed to broadening the denominational base of their theological faculty.

Of course I realize if I were to decide on Anabaptist/Baptist Studies, Spurgeon's would probably still be the way to go. But, what do you think about study in this area with U. of Pretoria in light of the recent developments there that I have mentioned?

I might also mention that I contacted Spurgeon's about incorporating a creative component into their MTh in Anabaptist/Baptist Studies, but the reply I got was very non-commital; it didn't really answer my question. Now if they did allow me to incorporate a creative element into that degree, I would, I believe, definitely go with Spurgeon's.

I look forward to hearing from you again on this.

 

CL,

I guess we were typing at the same time!

I still look forward to hearing from you again in response to that last post of mine.

Thanks!

 

I believe that one other consideration is important here. I can't emphasize enough the significance of networking in the academic community. Competition for academic posts is very tight. The proper connections can make all the difference between one actually gaining a teaching position and one spending a lifetime as the only insurance agent in town with a PhD in theology.

The Spurgeon's faculty is well networked with other scholars in the area of Baptist studies throughout the globe. Your affiliation with them would enable you to work your way into this network.

Conversely, the UFS faculty not only isn't networked in the area of Baptist studies, they are deeply entrenched in an entirely different network--Reformed studies. Thus, your affiliation with UFS is not likely to be of much benefit to you in cultivating networking relationships within the area of Baptist studies.

 

Hey, this sounds very exciting. Should you decide to go in the direction of the "creative component" program, it sounds as though Pretoria poses a tremendous option. I'm very excited for you. I would consider this a very strong option worthy of careful consideration. It's a good school that would provide you the opportunity to tailor your studies in the direction that is of interest to you. Perhaps most importantly, you have a professor who is not only willing to work with you, but quite enthusiastic. That is a special thing that shouldn't be taken lightly.

It sounds as though UFS has come to terms with its own limitations in being of service to you. This comes as no surprise to me & is certainly in your best interest.

Well, keep me posted on how things develop. I am very encouraged for you. It sounds as though deciding which focus you wish to take might be your first order of business at this point.