NCU versus UNISA question

Ripped from the What do people do with Ph.D. in Human Services? thread. I posted the same question there, but felt it would be more appropriate to post it in a new thread.

The 10-minute time rule lapsed before I had a chance to remove the post from the original thread. I apologize for the duplicate post.

I have often wondered about this for other degree programs as well.

Is it more important to earn a degree with the "proper" wording in the title or is just as good to earn a degree in another field with a similar specialization.

I ask this because I am an operations research analyst and I would love to earn a PhD in operations research (OR), but there are no local or DL RA options available. The only DL PhD degree in OR that I've seen is offered by UNISA. If I go with UNISA, then we get into the whole accreditation issue and the acceptance of such a degree in the U.S.

On the other hand, NCU offers a PhD in business administration with a specialization in business quantitative methods (BQM). It's not exactly OR but it is as close to OR as I can find. I'm not unhappy with the program except for the fact that the degree is in business [IMO, a technicality]. I also know that I could conceivably do an OR or OR focused dissertation and ultimately list a PhD in BQM on my resume once I finish.

I guess my question is, given that I am an operations research analyst and I think a recognized accreditation source is important [especially in the U.S.], would a degree with the “proper” title (i.e. a PhD in OR) fare better from a university like UNISA as opposed to a PhD in BA with a BQM specialization and an OR [or OR related] dissertation from NCU?

I would appreciate any thoughts on the topic.

 

Just an opinion of course,
You should have no difficulty dropping the OR angle in an interview or a resume, so I would go with NCU.
BrianH

 

Thanks for the comment Brian.

At this point I agree you with. With the BQM specialization, there is no reason I can’t do a dissertation on an OR topic and, if asked, use the OR dissertation research topic for interviews. I just have to stomach six more business related courses.

Being that NCU is RA, I am definitely looking at sticking with NCU. I am curious as to everyone’s take on the issue.

UNISA…unaccredited in the eyes of employers/HR personnel in the U.S. [for doctorates], but well known, respected, established, and offers a PhD in my career field.

NCU… accredited in the eyes of employers/HR personnel in the U.S., but their reputation is not yet established and the degree would be a PhD in business.

 

IMHO, it depends . . . on what you want to do with the degree. In some cases, a degree is earned to meet a statutory or regulatory requirement. For example, a school admin might need a doctorate. But if a candidate is known to be good, and has good political connections, it might not make much difference where the degree came from, a long as the awarding institution cleared whatever stipulations. In that case, a degree from a place like NCU would probably be better, as it carries RA. OTOH, the degree from UNISA might well be considered to be far superior to the NCU degree in other circumstances. In OR, a degree from an NCU-like institution would not get your foot in the door at the old Bell Labs, or at IBM Research, or with the faculty of any serious university. But the UNISA degree might, provided your dissertation was good, your references strong, and your record of pubs acceptable.

Gasbag

 

operations

NCU's quant specialization is pretty weak, which I'm sure is obvious to you as an OR analyst. It's just some courses thrown together and labeled a specialization. Plus, the methods squence is a one-size-fits-all. It's a shame, but typical. I'd chat with Keith Harman about your degree purpose. He's a strait shooter. I think I'd ask him about whether he's going to beef up that specialization in the near future. NCU does want to beef up their offerings generally, as I've been told.

The quantitative courses simply don't sell well due to the high math prerec requirements, so the only course NCU has is the Decision Theory course, which looks good. Courses like econometrics, dynamic modeling courses like you are familiar with, etc. may be years away from making their way into these more applied distance degree products.

If you get some outside committee members to support an appropriately rigorous and relevant analytical dissertation without having been necessarily provided the tools (e.g., appropriate methods courses) in the program, you'll be fine IMO in any interview. Plus, publication would be excellent.

I'm doing NCU's PhD BA - Finance and taking this approach - some outside committee members who can help me drill down into my field a bit more rigorously.

Good luck with your decision. I'd go with NCU based on what you indicated.

 

I'm not at all certain that this is the case. Depsite that, I agree with your conclusion. You could almost certainly tweak the NCU degree (by using a focused topic in your dissertation) to make it what you want it to be. If you can afford the substantial difference in tuition then the NCU degree might buy you something with their slightly better name/place recognition.
Jack

 

Just an observation, but isn't there a lot of "Versus" threads on degreeinfo?

"NCU vs Touro"
"EdD vs PhD"
"Capella vs Walden"
"MA vs MS"
"PhD vs DSc"
etc...

I feel like I'm posting in a fighting tournament of some kind sometimes.

 

The reason for posting this question is because I started my first specialization (business quantitative methods - BQM) course this month, operations research (OR), and the course turned out to be a watered down “businessized” version of the real thing. I was really looking forward to doing some OR, not operations management (OM).

I emailed Dr. Harman this past August about my desire for an OR specialization. Less than a month later the BQM specialization was born. I’m not sure if there is any correlation between the two events, but the BQM specialization turned out to be a pretty good compromise to what I really wanted. Now that I started the specialization courses, I am a little disappointed in my first “quantitative” course so I decided to revisit some of the nagging UNISA questions that I have had for a long time.

My plan is to stay with NCU and work to get the right mix of committee members for a truly quantitative dissertation.

 

I may have over generalized. UNISA is accredited to grant doctorates by their government. Since their government’s form of accreditation is not recognized by CHEA, employers/HR personnel in the U.S., who don’t know much about UNISA or accreditation, will more than likely view a doctorate from UNISA as an unaccredited degree.

 

In this corner, weighing in at 10 tons, NCU, and in this corner, weighing in at 50 tons, UNISA.

 

UNISA is accredited to grant doctorates by their government. Since their government’s form of accreditation is not recognized by CHEA, employers/HR personnel in the U.S., who don’t know much about UNISA or accreditation, will more than likely view a doctorate from UNISA as an unaccredited degree.


So just does how one know if a government's accreditation is recognized by the CHEA? I am perusd their website and didn't find anything. I could be looking in the wrong places.

 

NCU

I've talked to Keith a little bit. Their marginal cost to develop a course is low, which contributes to their ability to offer a variety of subjects rapidly. However, the downside that I can see is that they tend to be more generic. I plan to use the "research project" course and class papers to provide the depth that I want. You can do the same thing as you mentioned. It's more difficult - more self discipline required, etc. , but that's DL anyway. It's all up to the learner, so NCU's got what you need, but we both will have to push to get'er done. If a department chair considers you for a hire, they read your disseration and that's pretty much it unless you blow the interview. Forming a good committee is the challenge, which begs a guestion for the group.

What would an outside PhD dissertation comittee member that's not a mentor at the learner's school expect as reasonable compensation?

 

PhD2B, have you taken a look at the University of Alabama in Huntsville? They offer a PhD in Industrial and Systems Engineering and I am pretty sure you may write your thesis on something directly related to OR.

http://www.engdl.uah.edu/b/index.php

I don´t know about the acceptance of UNISA degrees in the US, but their OR program looks outstanding to me.

Regards

 

The answer may be found on one of the web pages linked-to from here.

And while it is, indeed, quite possible that US employers/HR personnel might consider a UNISA degree as "unaccredited," they'd be wrong. It's the degree holder's job, in any case, to ensure that his/her degree is viewed either by potential employers, or by US programs into which said degree holder might like to transfer said degree, as equivalent to one that's US regionally accredited.

The only way that I know of to do that with any credibility at all is to spend the money (gratefully, it's a once-in-one's-lifetime expense) to have the UNISA degree declared equivalent to one that's US regionally accredited by a foreign credential evaluator that's routinely trusted for such things by US colleges/universities, by the US government, and by many private employers.

Such credible foreign credential evaluators would be either AACRAO or pretty much any NACES member agency. The cost is from around $100 to usually no more than $500; and the result is a formal, document with a very official look to it -- usually on the same kind of paper as US college/university transcripts are printed on -- that declares to anyone interested that the UNISA (or whatever foreign degree) is (or is not, as the case may be) equivalent to a similarly-named degree from a US regionally-accredited college or university.

Many around here believe that any US resident who goes out and gets a foreign degree via distance learning (such as a degree from UNISA, for example) should just factor the cost of a foreign credential evaluation (once the foreign degree's attained) right into the overall cost of getting the foreign degree.

In my opinion, the smart US resident who holds a foreign degree would get an evaluation from both AACRAO and a NACES member agency, just so more bases are covered. The cost even for both is under -- usually well under -- a thousand dollars. Actually, a total cost of $600 for both is probably more likely, depending on which NACES member agency one chooses. As once-in-a-lifetime expenses go, that's not a lot of money.

Anyway, my point is: One should never worry about how the US Department of Education (USDE) or its Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) views a foreign degree. In the case of a UNISA degree, it's most definitely accredited in the way that we, in the US, mean that word. If a given potential employer, or a US government agency, or a US college/university happens to know that and, therefore, honors the UNISA degree in the manner it deserves, then that's terrific. But it's also luck. To convert luck into something predictable and appropriate, the UNISA degree holder in the US should pop for both an AACRAO, and a NACES member agency, foreign credential evaluation; and a reference to the fact that both agencies declared the UNISA degree equivalent to a US regionally accredited one should be right on the resume, in small print, just below the UNISA listing thereon...

...or so it is my opinion.

 

Re: Re: NCU versus UNISA question

JLV, I can honestly say that I haven’t seen that one. No wonder I like this forum!

The admission requirements are a show stopper for a non-engineer type like me.

I agree with you on UNISA’s OR program…it does look excellent.

 

Re: Re: Re: NCU versus UNISA question

They have arranged a path to seek admissions to non ABET graduates you may want to explore.

http://www.engdl.uah.edu/iseem/graduate/UAH%20Requirements%20for%20Non-engineers.pdf

I am sure you can take most of the requirements in a school near you (if needed). And I am sure you have those 5 year experience. Why don´t you give it a shot? You have strong credentials (I rememebr your post graduate degree at FIT), and I am pretty sure they would seriously consider you for admissions. This is a real engineering degree from a well known university (NASA is nearby and have a number of joint projects).

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: NCU versus UNISA question

I think the non-engineer path is only for the MSE. From their brochure:

I think my best bet is to keep going with NCU. It’s affordable, RA (which counts quite a bit if you live in the U.S.), and their degree program is flexible enough to allow me to do an OR [or OR related] dissertation.

 

In terms of utility, I would think that NCU would be more accepted in the US given its RA accreditation. On the other hand, the PhD from UNISA is a lot more rigorous since the OR faculty seems to have a strong reputation.

The problem with UNISA is not its academic standard but the fact that is located in Africa. A bit hard to explain to a HR person why you decided to go to Africa for your degree. More than one would doubt about the degree. NCU as few have commented, sounds like a legit small University and few even wouldn't bother to check if it is online or not unless you are going for an academic position.


Go for NCU

 

Regarding the accreditation of UNISA's degrees (I assume including their doctoral degrees), the following is an excerpt from the IACI website (Canada's UNISA rep):

http://www.iaci-canada.com/Accreditation.htm

Based on the last paragraph (above), I take it that UNISA also meets the first critria....... "Accredited by an agency recognized by the US Dept. of Education".

 

The second criteria... "Accredited by an agency recognized by the Council on Higher Education Accreditation" also applies.