unaccredited advice sought

I have spent the last two years reading about RA and DETC so no need to respond from that front.
I just dont care about that, I cannot in good conscience borrow that amound of money..I was admitted into both NCU and Liberty but have backed out.....
Seeking an inexpensive, for personal satisfaction and development, doctorate in education or christian education.
I have to know I earned it though....many of you will understand my perspective..some will not.
I already have a job, so this is just a personal thing.
I know about LBU and the SA schools, any others?
United Methodist but conservative.....tolerant of theology if they will be tolerant of me

 

Not to be annoying but I felt the need to add that I already looked at Wichita State. It requires you to be off every Wednesday. KSU and KU are too far to drive. Due to family constraints(five kids 7 and under), I cannot travel very often..but some possibly
BH

 

I can't help you identify such a school but I thought you'd like to know that I feel pretty much the same way about the J.S.D. I'd like to do some day.

In my LL.M. work, I've learned SO MUCH and will learn a lot more before I'm done. That process is more important to me than the credential's accreditation. But, like you, I need to be satisfied in my own mind that I'd "earned it."

Good luck in your seach!

 

Why do you want a doctorate in the first place? What would a doctorate offer you that additional study without a degree objective wouldn't?

I don't mean to be nasty by asking that. I went through the same question myself. I'd completed a masters and I'd always wanted a doctorate. But I eventually had to ask myself why.

There was something about being a "Doctor". An authority. Being able to put "Ph.D." behind my name. It was the doctoral peacock factor, the desire for other people to bend a knee to me and to kiss my ring. And put that way, I realized that I didn't really need it at all.

So you might start by deciding whether your basic purpose is personal growth or social standing. If it's the former, then you can broaden your perspective out from a narrow focus on doctoral programs to a broader universe of educational options, some accredited and many not. If the goal is to find something interesting and useful to study, education is where you find it.

If the goal is to impress other people, you need to think about who those people are and what kind of program is likely to impress them. You probably should be seeking programs that you can successfully make a case for, programs that you can defend to well-informed skeptics, many of them professionals in your field.

Just arguing that your chosen program is inexpensive probably isn't going to win over many professional peers. You need to find a program that's reasonably competitive even when it's being compared with accredited programs. Probably the easiest way to do that is to find a program that offers something fairly unique, something that can't easily be duplicated elsewhere. That way you can argue that despite it's not being accredited, your choice is one of the best places available to study whatever it is.

As an example of what I mean, there's the U.West Ph.D. program in religious studies. It isn't accredited yet, but I think that it has one of the best selection of courses in Buddhism in the United States. It has a strong faculty, it was founded by and is operated by practicing Buddhists, and it has strong connections back in Asia. I think that this place could probably be defended at an AAR convenion or someplace like that.

 

BillDayson,

Good advice.

I also think, though, that there's a challenge in doing a dissertation; that's why the "I earned it" is so important. But since it doesn't matter in, say, MY career, I'm the only one I need to satisfy.

Of course, the TROUBLE is, without accredtation, how can I be sure that I DID "earn it"?

 

Mr. Dayson,
I hear you. I can only say that your presuppositions and mine are quite different. Like I said earlier, "many of you will understand my perspective..some will not". Nosbornes response and your reply attest to that. I will achieve my career goal of district leadership without it. My job performance and state certifications will see to that I suspect.
The few who know about this doctorate,and know my character, will know I have earned it, if I say so. I cannot imagine talking about it. I would suppose that knowledge would be limited to those who sit next to me at a graduation, my immediate family, and...I guess maybe this board!
I have two RA masters I never brag about. One reason, I would not brag. The second reason is they were easier than most of my classes at junior college. I hardly had to put time into them. I intend to pour my time into my dissertation. For me.
Thank you for responding however...
BrianH

 

First, what Bill said.

Secondly, I'm not in the habit of suggesting a non-accredited school, but if the degree is only for your personal satisfaction and fulfillment, you may want to check out the Trinity School of Apologetics and Theology. All told, I think a Phd will run you about $1,500 to $2,000.

http://www.trinitytheology.org/index.php

 

"Of course, the TROUBLE is, without accredtation, how can I be sure that I DID "earn it"?"

I would say, like me, after 13 years of K-12 schooling, 14 actually Mom held me back in first grade............and lots of college hours, I can judge for myself if I put the effort into it. I know what classes I busted my tail for, as I am sure you do.
I know that according to the North Central Association of Schools and Colleges I earned two masters. My reality is that I worked considerably harder for my first 61 hours of college credit from my junior college. I am not arguing against the process of course. All good processes have some failures, a break down somewhere.

TCord, thank you for your response. I am mentally hearing Chicago in the background as you break your habit........
thanks
BrianH

 

Take a look at Trinity College of the Bible Theological Seminary. That school is a candidate for regional accreditation. They were offering their courses for $199.00 as a calling card. The regular tuition is much higher.

Just a thought.

 

When the math proof that took you three weeks of false-starts comes to you in a eureka moment and looks as beautiful as Solomon's Bride Herself one night but like a 5-beers-required hag in the morning; when your eyes have so many bags passers-by ask you going on vacation? -- you've packed enough bags; when someone says something sounding vaguely like they must have gotten it from someone else and you ask for the citation (since, as per [Twain], only Adam was so lucky enough as to never have to worry about citation); when you use your fingers not only to "jiggle-quote" when you repeat someone else's words, but the number of fingers you use on your right hand represents the footnote number; when you hate the thing you've been working on for so long so much that, even though it's on hard disk you want to print it out just so you can light it on fire; when whatever it was you once considered your dearest most area of research becomes a monosyllable when you say it (even though it's spelled with 45 letters, 3 spaces, and a hyphen); when you overhear a casual conversation one day that convinces you all your results were wrong -- wrong -- dammit wrong but then you have some coffee, think about it, and realize you were right -- right -- right dammit right after all; when everything you thought you knew about your field all of a sudden pales in the realization that you we're completely wrong until the day you started the dissertation; when you can write a run on sentence so long that Word's "auto-hyphenate" feature crashes on an hourly basis; then, and only then...


... you might believe you've earned it.

 

God I love to read good writing....It is never my own of course........
BH

 

Gotta agree with Bill Dayson on this one. If you're concerned about earning the doctoral title, then go to a recognized school and earn it. If all you're concerned about is personal development, you can do that outside a degree program.

There are a few niche schools that are unaccredited, yet are respected. Then there's the poor substitutes who exist primarly to provide an easier route to the appearance--but not reality--of a doctorate.

If you want a doctorate, go earn one. If not, you've expanded mightily your opportunities for personal development, far beyond the university--and those operations posing as universities.

 

It would be rude not to respond...

"If you're concerned about earning the doctoral title, then go to a recognized school and earn it."
I already adressed this. This does not apply to personal development, which is what I stated several times

"If all you're concerned about is personal development, you can do that outside a degree program."
and inside a degree program as well I am sure you would agree...

"There are a few niche schools that are unaccredited, yet are respected."
focused on others, not applicable to me

"Then there's the poor substitutes who exist primarly to provide an easier route to the appearance--but not reality--of a doctorate."
appearance is not important to me, once again that focuses on others

'If you want a doctorate, go earn one. If not, you've expanded mightily your opportunities for personal development, far beyond the university--and those operations posing as universities."
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
BrianH

 

If all that you are interested in is personal development, then why are you rejecting every option that doesn't promise to award you a doctoral title?

I suppose. But if you look beyond simply acquiring a degree title and place greater emphasis on educational content, you will probably encounter more valuable options, and fewer misleading ones.

The question of whether your degree is recognized by professional peers is important if you ever try to use it. If you don't intend to use it, then why emphasize the degree over the education?

Even if you keep your beloved doctoral title a secret from everyone else out there, you will still have to convince your most demanding critic.

You will have to believe in it yourself. Will you?

 

QTJ and BH:

Unfortunately, in a doctoral program, I DON'T think that the student is in any position to know whether he's "earned it". The very nature of the doctorate is to train the student to do independent research to a very high academic standard. If the student already KNOWS how to do this, why does he need the program? And if he DOESN'T, how can he know that he's succeeded in matersing the art of research to its highest (i.e. doctoral) level?

How hard you work might be one indicator but it cannot be the sole indicator; how can the student judge for himself that his contribution is original and significant? That judgment lies with the doctoral examining committee. If that committee does not impose the highest standards the test becomes meaningless.

And this is why I'm in the London program and not with NWCU.

 

Isn't the individual who becomes a great scholar in his own head but whose ideas receive no recognition from the professional community kind of the definition of a 'crank'?

Actually, I have a fondness for cranks. That's one reason why I like the CA-approved universe. The native habitat, the Serengeti of the wild crank. It's the last place you find free-roaming herds of them.

 

Well, having one's work cited a full five pages worth of someone else's Ph.D. dissertation certainly doesn't hurt to validate the "earned it" feeling, nor do citations in a master's thesis such as "I chose X, because an implementation by [name] invites confidence in itself, and is recommended by [anothername] himself."

This to say that when the four hits the floor -- the proof of the putting is in the reading.

 

Fair enough to both of you.

 

You make a good point, Bill. People ask, "Why do you have to go the doctoral route if it's just for your personal satisfaction?" (Indeed, that very question is asked often hereabouts!)

I suppose one could ask three or more scholars to review something "like" a dissertation, without any notion that it will result in a conferral, all for the jolly-ole-illumination of it. To go through the rigor, the gauntlet, but just to expand one's own mind, et cetera. Certainly one could pull something like that off, and even get the results cited in umpteen different credible places. But one cannot go back, later, if one decides one wanted the doctorate after all and say, "Oh, man... what do you mean I can't just redo what I did for those three or more scholars and present it as my dissertation for a doctorate? What do you mean I have to start from scratch?"

Which is to say, if what one is "about to venture into" is doctoral level scholarly work, even if only for one's personal edification and satisfaction -- the dollar is spent once it's done. Unless one has a few good 'ns in him or herself to start from scratch should his or her "foreseeable" desires suddenly become the doctorate after all, just doing that level of research for the satisfaction (without the fanfare) could be akin to emptying the bank account to buy a ranch cheap (with no refunds allowed) and then deciding the city isn't so bad after all.

 

Bill and Nosborne,
I think I will summarize, and I keep responding to the philosophical comments, even though it is of minimal interest to me..
I do wish to earn a doctorate for personal satisfaction...both the knowledge and the degree sure.....it must be legit to me. We have over 20 post bachelor degrees among my brothers and their numerous wives(divorce..not a fundie BOM thing). I know what it takes. I believe I know what is legit. That is good enough for me. I greatly appreciate your responses and feel free(like I have to give permission to discuss this). I need some names brother
BrianH