Louisiana Baptist University...another thread

I see that LBU has lined up Jerry Falwell as the 2006 graduation speaker.

http://www.lbu.edu/index.html

Is Liberty associated with the SBC by chance or is it independent, too? I did not see where Liberty had a mention of being affiliated with any Baptist organization on their "ABOUT" page.

 

Falwell isn't associated with any formal denomination, either... He is an independent baptist. While the independent baptist cooperate with each other, they are not connected as such...

 

I am a Southern Baptist and had heard a rumor that Falwell's church was contributing some to the SBC. Nevertheless, that does not make him "Southern Baptist." I believe he would be more independent Baptist than anything else. There are tons of churches that contribute to the SBC (all it takes is a small donation of $1) but they don't consider themselves "SBC" churches.

He has a number of Southern Baptists on his boards and several faculty have interchanged between his school and SBC seminaries and universities.

 

Historically, the Baptist identity with which Liberty University has been most closely identified is that of the Baptist Bible Fellowship International (http://www.bbfi.org/). This is so by virtue of the fact that Thomas Road Baptist Church, the “mother” church of Liberty University, has maintained a long-standing relationship with this fellowship.

More recently, once the fundamentalist takeover in the SBC seemed to be secure, Jerry’s whole empire has become linked to the SBC by virtue of its state convention in Virginia, the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia (http://www.sbcv.org/). Virginia is one of the Southern Baptist states in which two state conventions now exist. This came about as a result of the “conservatives” becoming disillusioned by the “moderate” control of the established state convention. Even though the fundamentalist takeover at the national level has been decisive, this has not been so within all state conventions (Texas is another embattled state). Thus, the fundamentalist group founded its own convention in Virginia in order to more freely and fully promote its own agenda. The historic SBC group in Virginia, the Baptist General Conference of Virginia, continues to maintain loosened ties with the SBC, but also works with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the [non]denominational entity formed by moderates who became marginalized during the fundamentalist takeover of the denomination.

As I understand it, Liberty University (perhaps more directly Liberty Theological Seminary) has entered into a formal relationship with the SBCV as an approved or sponsored institution. Jerry Falwell first appeared on the platform at the 1999 SBC annual convention at the Georgia Dome, to the utter chagrin of many (even conservative) long-time SBCers. As I understand, Liberty has continued to cultivate working ties with the SBCV since that time. The SBCV offers scholarships to those of its students who choose to study at Liberty Theological Seminary. In addition, the SBCV and Liberty share a "Liberty Links" program through which Liberty student teams are able to minister in local SBCV churches.

 

Maybe off track on my own thread but wondered about any significant differences between Southern Baptist theology and PCA theology.

 

The differences between the PCA and SBC...you could write several books on it.

You will find, I believe, that they are both conservative, evangelical, and very much dedicated to evangelism. They both affirm the inerrancy of scripture, the necessity of salvation by Christ alone, etc.

Perhaps the two biggest differences is that the PCA (assuming you are talking about the Presbyterian group) is that the PCA is definitely more Reformed with regards to their views on salvation and the organization of the church.

PCA folks are going to be much more Calvinist than the SBC, although there has been a Calvinist resurgence in the SBC since the Fundamentalist resurgence.

PCA folks will also adhere to the elder form of government, whereas the SBC is more deacon and pastor led.

Educationally, there are numbers of Baptists who have received a Presbyterian education and vice versa. Several Baptist scholars hold more Reformed views as well.

If one is hesitant to go to Liberty because of it being Baptist and one is Presbyterian, I would say don't worry about it. The person would probably find themselves right at home.

 

Very nice. Thanks for the reply. I was just curious about some of their differences. I knew both to be very hardline conservative.

 

I would like to add a couple of comments to this:

An important distinction between these two denominations lies in the fact that the PCA affirms a strong "Covenantal" theology (pedobaptism and all). Though there has been something of a Reformed resurgene within SBC circles in recent years (largely under the influence of Al Mohler and gang at Southern Seminary), the Baptist commitment to believer's baptism will forever serve as a distinguishing mark between the two groups under consideration here.

In addition, I would suggest that, if he or she is planning to study within the theological disciplines, a Presbyterian might not feel overwhelmingly at home at Liberty. The dispensational views espoused by its faculty stand in stark contrast to the theological tenets of the covenantal system. Speaking from experience as a one-time Liberty student, I would venture to guess that one committed to a Presbyterian theological position might actually feel as thought his or her views are treated in a less than fair manner (This would be true within the classes of a couple of professors in particular).

At the same time, the individual who is contemplating going to Liberty to study in another field is not likely to feel this same tension. My wife's favorite Enlish professor attends an outstanding Presbyterian church in the community of Lynchburg.

 

PCA Covenant College

Just looking up the PCA today and found that their school, Covenant College, has a program in Tennessee and Georgia doing an degree completion program for adults. It might be of interest for reformed theological types desiring to complete a degree....

http://newquest.covenant.edu/

 

LBU is affiliated with the Bible Baptist Fellowship International. I believe that this denominational tie is one of the reasons it is an ethical UA school.

 

Indeed, Janko! LBU is one of six schools approved by the BBFI for the training of its ministers/missionaries. Some of the BBFI schools are regionally accredited, but not all. The BBFI approval was one of the main factors in my decision to complete a doctoral program via LBU. Having earned degrees from three regionally accredited schools (BA, MA, DMin), two of which also hold ATS accreditation, I am certainly aware of the value and utility of recognized accreditation. A perusal of my numerous posts on DegreeInfo will certainly validate my position regarding less-than-wonderful schools and degree mills.

However, for some, the pursuit of a substantive degree program in the practics is based on factors other than accreditation. While valuable, even essential in many religious contexts, secular accreditation is not the primary concern for all. While the larger percentage of unaccredited religious institutions do indeed border on the less-than-wonderful and millish--none of which I would recommend--a small percentage of such schools offer legitimate courses of study. Many such schools are affiliated, recognized and approved by a particular religious fellowship/denomination. While this is not accreditation, IMO, it does lend validity to the quality of education offered by such institutions. For this reason, I chose LBU for completion of a second doctorate, the PhD in practical theology.

 

What is practial theology vs theology, or unpractical theology?

I checked out LBU's doctorate program a number of months ago and it looked like a deal to me, cost anyway. I looked at their communications doctorate, which is where you go if you want a business type doctorate. It is hard to determine anything about their programs because they just don't offer much content on their site other than their programs are Christian based. I like the idea of Christian centered education in the various disciplines, though.

The only graduates of the school I know of are Jason Gastrich(often looked at as a nutcase), out in California, and Chuck Missler. Missler is sort of out there with his belief that aliens are really angels.

Their administration and staff seem to have a number of LBU PhD grads, too. Too many maybe. I would like to hear more from their students on the forum, really. I suspect more people visiting here are LBU students.

 

Gastrich is inter alia a Catholic-hater and a very polemical young man. Veteran posters will recall how CCU was ill-served by one or two of its students; mutatis mutandis, the same applies to LBU. Both are ethical schools and weirdos aren't their fault.

 

I have to at this time in my understanding make a considerable distinction between Theology (as in Systematics and Historical) and Practical Theology both in terms of basic definitions and in what qualifications are generally required to teach these two at the grad level.

I would not recommend a doctoral program , or even a master's, at LBU in Bible or Systematic or Historical Theology for these reasons :

1) IMO the usual faculty qualification to teach or supervise would be an accredited PhD or ThD, or its foreign equivalent, in the teaching area. I think it rarely happens that one who himself has avoided the rigor of accredited doc work can teach doc courses at a rigor equivalent to accredited programs.

2) a doc program in these subjects should require as prerequisites languages, Biblical or otherwise, and some sort of efficient entry exam as the area of concentration necessitates,

3) such a doc program should have the recognition of being the equivalent in substance and rigor of accredited ones,

4) which recognition should yield a broad utility as LBU doc grads teaching in varied accredited schools, or in the case of LBU MDivs, these should be qualified to enter and succeed in docs in accredited schools, but they are not!.

I think LBU's programs in these areas by these criteria are shown to be substandard.

But , in contrast, in regard to the LBU doc in Praxis, or Practical Theology , as my long time friend Russell has completed, I have far less worry about that as praxis is much learned by experience not by academics. Therefore, even though the LBU profs who teach doc work in practical Theology usually lack accredited docs themselves, IMO, one who has for 30 years successfully ministered is likely to be efficient in teaching ministry. And the utility of that degree is enhanced ministry.

And who am I ,who has so little ministered to others, to judge another's ministry?

 

also: IMO a school may not be responsible for the weirdo ideas of its grads.

BUT a school IS responsible for its own curriculum and its own instruction and its own rigor and seeing to it that its grad students can function at the grad level!

Therefore, when, as in Jason's case, a student of a school who aces all his MA in BIBLE program , getting STRAIGHT As, and is furthermore doing well in his PhD in BIBLE program publicly opines that Strong's Concordance is the very best tool for lexical research in Greek, THEN IMO said school has FAILED to educate this person as it should by allowing him to succeed in PhD work in BIBLE when he should miserably fail because he does not know even how to conjugate luo in the present active indicative or to at all use the languages of the Biblical text in which he is getting a PhD, which skills in normal programs are PREREQUISITES NOT OUTCOMES for doc instruction..

And, IMO, that exemplifies one reason why some LBU programs are substandard!

 

Brilliantly, unimpeachably, and temperately argued--as always.

 

Unlce,

That is a fair statement. HOWEVER, when applied to LBU it doesn't work. I can buy that a school may not be at fault for the weirdos they graduate. Yet, we see that LBU graduates the weirdo and then teams up with them.

LBU highlighted Missler as one of their famous alumni grads('99 PhD) a few months back. One of their proud alumni. Like a father and a son. Then, if you go to Missler's site you see that there is an LBU-Missler deal. To me, Missler is a pretty intelligent guy. Not sure where he went off the deep end but I don't know that much about him.

There is a Google cache of the featured alumni... www.lbu.edu/featuredalumni.html

Here is the link of the info relating to the Missler LBU deal...
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/534/

 

Biblical language requirements

Heck, even JESUS needed decent Hebrew and Aramaic skills...

 

Hi Bing:
I was referring to the reprehensible Mr Gastrich.
As to Mr Missler, all I can say is that if I went around this forum slamming other people's theology because as a confessional Lutheran I am truly, madly, deeply at variance with it, I wouldn't have too many friends left around here. There's no implied criticism of your assessment of Mr Missler in that; I was simply using "weirdo" in a somewhat different sense.
Best wishes to you,
Janko the Mad Priest

 

Can't say I know too much about Gastrich. He seems an odd sort just from looking at his resume out there.

Well, I must say that the belief that ufo aliens are angels is an odd one. He spends a lot of energy on writing books that look more like Christian scientology. Probably sells well in Hollywood to pink hair,-too much makeup-porter wagoner wannabe husband- old lady minister crowd.