Questions about tui's professional psychology phd program

Hi all,
I am considering tui's professional psychology phd program. Is anybody around currently enrolled or graduated from said program? Any issues with licensure for NY state (NY doesn't require APA accreditation) or any other state? Bellow are some of NY's requirements. Also, I am very dedicated and self-driven, but how realistic is it to finish the academic portion in 3 years (excluding the internship)?

Thanks for your time and your feedback from current/former learners and others!


1) At least three years of full-time study, or the part-time equivalent thereof, including at least 30 semester hours of coursework obtained at the doctoral degree-granting institution.

2) The program must be a doctoral program in psychology which requires at least three years of full-time study or the equivalent, including seminars, tutorials, or other graduate level coursework representing two years of full-time study or the equivalent.

3) Coursework in scientific and professional ethics and standards of practice, and issues of cultural and ethnic diversity; at least three semester hours or five graduate quarter hours in each of the following seven substantive content areas: biological basis of behavior; cognitive-affective basis of behavior; social basis of behavior; individual difference; psychometrics; history and systems of psychology; and research design, methodology, and statistics.

4) One year of supervised practicum, internship, field experience, or applied research, which is appropriate to the practice of psychology as the practice is defined in Section 7601-A of Title 8 of the Education Law. To meet this requirement, a "practicum" must be the equivalent of an "internship."

 

I'd caution you against that school, from what I've been reading, major changes are in store - who knows what phd degree will be left standing. Might be safer to look elsewhere...

 

What are the major changes???

 

We discussed Union's Doctoral changes here:
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=20655&highlight=Union

 

Can you explain this???

 

The news I read isn't that fresh and is freely avail. on the Interent from various notices and sites like this one.

What I did read is that Union is on notice. The notice review report is due at the end of this year. A team of the dept. of ed. from Cincinnati and Vermont recommended that the phd program be limited to social sciences and humanities and the minimum period required to finish the degree jump from 2 years to 3 years, amongst other things. The dept. of ed. wants to monitor Union through 2007 for compliance.

In other words, the phd program is on probation for the next few years. I like Union and their alternative programs but I'd wait to see a final curriculum (and a consultation from my ouija board) before considering them.

 

And if anybody has newer information that would dispel/annul what I stated above, I'd be interested in hearing it.

 

Avoid Non-Apa Schools

I would suggest to you that if you want to go for ANY state licensure as a psychologist that you go to a school with an APA accreditation for the program. This will save you much heartache in the future. Right now, the only game in town in terms of distance education is Fielding Graduate Institute (www.fielding.edu). Eventually Capella will be there also. Argossy has many campuses accross the USA but only offers some of its courses via online. Argossy is APA accredited.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks Zoro, Rivers, BlackBird and the others! I did some research on the various psychology DL schools and Fielding is high up on my list. Honestly, I like the Union’s and Saybrook’s of the world as they seem more non-traditional than others (my perception so far). Union, with its ‘customizable’ PhD, and Saybrook, with its humanistic line of thinking, would permit me to customize part of my research and thesis in areas of interests (humanistic, introspective, spiritual psychology) instead of a more typical clinical track. NY, so far, doesn’t mention anything about APA for licensure and the minimim requirements for academics is 3 years. Thus, I am willing to suffer minor headaches for licensure if I can get creative freedom and the ability to finish the academic part quickly (and being on the east coast, it is nice to attend a school that isn’t in CA).

I did get in touch with ITP (Institute of Transpersonal Psychology) which would have been my first choice, but they were really upfront that their DL degree wasn’t for licensure. No Argosys in my area and I think Capella is too traditional for me (BlackBird?).

The reason that I’m seeking feedback here is that I sent a few emails with similar questions directly to Union and still haven’t recevied any replies. I guess it migth be related to the above posts. I’m in no hurry, and will certainly not jump into anything until if feels right.

I'd love to talk, on or offline, with anybody who did go through the clinical track at Union or other dl school. So if anybody is so inclined -> amunategui @ gmail.com <-- remove blank spaces around the @

 

Union's psychology doctoral programs are going anywhere. Expect a possible switch to the PsyD, though.

I don't believe there are any graduates of Union's clinical program posting here. Consider doing an internet search and contact people directly. Or you could ask the school to refer you to some of its graduates.

Union recently received a 3-year provisional approval in Ohio, follwing the 2-year provisional approval granted before. It looks like they're making progress towards the state's report, and their financial aid program--suspended briefly by the USDoE while Union implemented a documenting process--is ongoing and no longer threatens the school's financial outlook.

I'm still not recommending Union, but things are looking up.

 

Blackbird gave you excellent advise. Many states are tightening their licensure requirements and NY is no exception. Word is out that in the next few years NY may also require an APA psychology doctorate.

I can understand your interest in schools such as the Union Institute however from what I previously heard a number of their students experienced difficulty or could not obtain licensure in their states of residence. This situation may change due to the tightening standards at this school but at this time the primary choice I would consider would be the Fielding Institute. Keep in mind that their doctoral program is research oriented and can take many years to complete.

I would suggest that you contact the NYS licensure board of psychology and inquire regarding the acceptability of degrees from the schools mentioned above and whether they have licensed any graduates from these schools.

 

I would suggest that you not eliminate Fielding so fast. They are innovative. They show it by their psychodynamic specialization and other...

You will find that most States that don't require APA programmatic accreditation tailor their State requirements a la APA. Hence you will have to bow the knee to the APA. You will find that Fielding is more open than you think for several reasons:

1. The school is in California where "alternative" is standard with many DL schools and life there.

2. Look at Fielding Focus Magazines (http://www.fielding.edu/focus.htm#focus)to see the Ph.D. dissertaton topics to give you an idea of the unique topics for research.

3. Most doctoral level profs are open to you bringing in your research interests into your coursework and dissertation as long as they are connected to the course topics and with dissertation, exhibit scholarship and original thinking.

I recommend you speak with the dean of the Clinical program so that you can get your questions answered right from the horse's mouth, instead of giving up on Fielding.

If not, you have three options:

1) Go APA and have the best of all worlds

2) Go Non-APA but tailored like APA programs but risk not getting accreditation, especially if NY changes during your program coursework.

3) Get licensure on the masters level and do a research (non-clinical) Psychology program that will give you the Ph.D. clout, assuming you're not into psychological testing, or being an official "psychological god," which is mainly the Psych. Licensure's power. The non-licensure Ph.D. will help you to teach and be perceived at some level of authority to academics and general population.

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks all for your advice. A lot of food for thought!

I agree that the APA is the safest route to take if one wants to end up with a license. I'll admit that I only explored Fielding through their catalog and program notes. I will dig deeper, read their magazines and maybe get in touch with faculty and students. Time is on my side as am in no hurry at all.

On a side note, for those that might be interested, I did find licensed psychologists in the state of NY from Union, Saybrook, and, less surprising, Fielding. That said, if they change the rules during a learner's schooling, I'd hope they'd be grandfathered in (a gamble though).

Another side note, I just received a short letter from Union. They mention being in the process of strengthening the doctoral program and making changes to content, structure, and admission procedures. They are adding an Ed.D and Psy.D. Entry Colloquium dates for 2006 aren't released yet.

 

If I was going to pursue a distance learning doctorate in psychology, whether or not I wanted licensing, I would choose Fielding first. Great scholarly community, terrific reputation, APA accreditation, solid residencies, flexible learning methodologies, and much more.

Second would be Nova Southeastern, for what I think are obvious reasons.

I would choose Union third, for many of the same reasons as Fielding (sans APA). I wouldn't worry about reputation; the only people obsessed with Union are degree mill shills populating another forum.

My fourth choice would be Capella. Good roots, and a lean-forward approach to this field. Tied would be Walden and Argosy

Other interesting schools that would top others' lists include Saybrook and CIIS. There's probably an obvious one or more that I've omitted.

I would be less enthused about attending NCU and Touro International. They, like UoP, seem more like training programs, rather than education programs. (Not that I think their degrees are not valid; the educational approach doesnt' appeal to me personally. Others love those schools.)

Choosing any DL program with an eye on licensure--even Fielding--means you should check very carefully with your state licensure board to ensure the program is acceptable. Also, check with the school(s) to see if they've had graduates go on to licensure in your state.

 

Manam... YOu won't get grandfathered in because that only happens when you have already submitted documentation to the state [State boards don't want to hear from you until you graduate] by a prior deadline and that you have fulfilled PRIOR requirements and/or have already been practicing in the field professionally prior to the law change. That happens in Florida when the rules have changes and there is already a graduate doing the post-masters/post-doctorate clinical hours and that person has had his registration in with the state already. To do that, you have to have a degree in hand already. Being in school under the old laws doesn't qualify. It will be "tough luck!" as the response from the State board people.

Don't mean to be tough on you but "strengthening," though a good move in the right direction, does not equate with programmitic accreditation. To a State Board high school educated employee, they just want to see either "APA accredited on your degree" or in the case of NY now, have the exact requirements that NY requires. Strong or no strong, that is what a State Board looks at. You'll have to digest these hard realities, but keep in mind that once you get your degree, you'll know that you are on a turf that few get to and that makes you a special commodity, which means a little more job security. Potential employers will pick you with no qualms because of your highest credential, hands down. That's a positive way to look at it.

 

We know, of course, that many graduates of non-APA programs go on to licensure, including graduates from Union's clinical program.

I don't think being APA-accredited is a guarantee, either. When I checked out CIIS's website, they had a statement that their APA-accredited PsyD program met the licensure requirements in most states. Most, not all. Now, I don't pretend to be an expert in this stuff, but are there states who will not accept a degree earned by DL, even from an APA-accredited one?

 

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Rich, in the early days of Fielding's newly minted APA accreditation, I spoke to the folks there and they told me that places like Florida gave Fielding grads a hard time. Eventually they won out. Probably the APA went to bat for the grads. Many were leary of DL being able to deliver quality Clinical Psych. programs. This skepticism has since mostly worn off with more grads from Fielding in the field. I do not know if there are current states giving Fielding grads a hard time. An email to them would answer that question easily.

 

Interestingly enough, (at least to me) is the fact that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania does not require an APA approved Doctoral program in order to gain licensure as a Psychologist. In fact, they don't even require a Graduate to have a regionally accredited degree (at least it's not stated as such).

I wonder how common this is for a state not to require an APA as part of the qualifications for Licensure as a Psychologist? This is important to me as I'm mulling over my options once I complete my BA in Psych. If I can attend a non-APA school and still gain licensure in my home state, I would be thrilled to say the least. In this case, I will most likely attend SCUPS to obtain 30 graduate level credits in Psych and then transfer over to NCU to complete my Ph.D in Clinical Psychology - thus obtaining a regionally accredited, but non APA approved degree.

This brings up another important question. If someone were to proceed with the above scenario (e.g. myself), would the said person be able to get an internship with a Psychologist in Pennsylvania with a Doctorate from a non-APA accredited school? The language below seems to suggest that this is the case, since the state board will also accept "a graduate of an accredited college or university holding a doctoral degree in a field related to psychology".

I am including a section of the PA Psych board act below which lists the qualifications for license (my bolding):

Source: http://www.dos.state.pa.us/bpoa/LIB/bpoa/20/10/psybd-act.pdf

Section 6. Qualifications for License.-(a) An applicant shall be
qualified for a license to practice psychology after submission of proof
satisfactory to the board that the applicant:
(1) is of acceptable moral character; and
(2) is either (i) a graduate of an accredited college or university
holding a degree of Doctor of Philosophy in psychology, Doctor of Psychology,
or Doctor of Education in psychology and has not less than two years of
supervised experience, at least one of which was obtained subsequent to the
granting of the doctoral degree, provided that such experience is acceptable
to the board pursuant to criteria established by board regulations, or (ii) a
graduate of an accredited college or university holding a doctoral degree in a
field related to psychology and has not less than two years of supervised
experience, at least one of which was obtained subsequent to the granting of
the doctoral degree, provided such experience and training are acceptable to
the board as being equivalent to the above pursuant to criteria established by
board regulations; and
(3) has passed an examination duly adopted by the board; and
(4) has paid all appropriate fees in the amount determined by the board
by regulation; and
(5) has not been convicted of a felony under the act of April 14, 1972
(P.L.233, No.64), known as "The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and
Cosmetic Act," or of an offense under the laws of another jurisdiction which
if committed in this Commonwealth would be a felony under "The Controlled
Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act," unless:
(i) at least ten years have elapsed from the date of conviction;
(ii) the applicant satisfactorily demonstrates to the board that he has
made significant progress in personal rehabilitation since the conviction such
that licensure of the applicant should not be expected to create a substantial
risk of harm to the health and safety of his patients or the public or a
substantial risk of further criminal violations; and
(iii) the applicant otherwise satisfies the qualifications contained in
or authorized by this act.
As used in this clause the term "convicted" shall include a judgment, an
admission of guilt or a plea of nolo contendere.
(b) Each applicant shall submit an affidavit or affirmation of the
applicant as to the verity of the application. Any applicant who knowingly or
willfully makes a false statement of fact in his application shall be subject
to prosecution for perjury.
(c) In case of failure at any examination, the applicant shall have,
after the expiration of six months and within two years, the privilege of a
second examination by the board with the payment of an additional fee. The
board may adopt regulations governing the eligibility of applicants who have
failed to pass two examinations in order to be admitted to subsequent
examinations.



Nowhere in the above Pennsylvania Psychology Licensure Act is there a mention of the APA. Very interesting!
- Tom

 

An interesting sidebar to my previous post.

In the Pennsylvania "Application For License to Practice Psychology", the following blurb is included for those Graduates with a non-APA approved degree:

Source: http://www.dos.state.pa.us/bpoa/lib/bpoa/20/psy_board/appl_for_license_to_practice_psychology0804.pdf

Request Director of Clinical Training for doctoral program to complete “Verification of Doctoral Program Approval Status” on page 6 and seal it in a separate envelope with the signature of the Director of Clinical Training over the envelope seal.
PLEASE NOTE: A “Verification of Doctoral Program Approval Status” form, which indicates that the program is not APA approved or ASPPB designated, will prompt the Board Office to request additional information directly from the institution. The Board will not review the application until this material is received from the institution.


I wonder what kind of "additional information" they would be looking for?

So it looks like one would have to jump through some hoops to get licensed as a Psychologist in Pennsylvania with a non-APA approved Doctorate. Not impossible though...

- Tom

 

Yo Tom (I always like saying that to Philadelphians since I grew up in Bucks County), could you make a run down to 9th st. and pick me up a Pat’s steak and loaf of bread from Sarcone’s!

OK, on task here. I’m going to paraphrase Nosborne on non-ABA law schools. If you’re absolutely sure an unaccredited psychology program will, over the long haul, meet your needs have at it. But do your due diligence and make an informed decision. I’m an APA trained psychologist and I supervise students in an APA approved internship program. Be aware the gotcha’s are legion and they hang on; you can expect to be marginalized throughout your career. Really, you’re hamstrung even before you finish the degree; you won’t be eligible for the largest source of internships which is the federal government via the VA, federal prison system, and the military. Winning admission to an internship has been a roadblock over the last few years. Once you finish you may experience mobility problems in securing licensure in other states. What if you get an attractive consulting opportunity in Wilmington or Cherry Hill? You might experience limitations in becoming listed in the National Register. You will very likely be excluded from HMO panels and you may find yourself excluded from privileging in some medical centers where you might want to see patients. In other words, I’m encouraging you to look beyond the question of can I get a license with an unapproved degree to how many degrees of freedom have you to work with once you get licensed.

Regarding you other questions, I believe few states restrict licensure to graduates of approved programs although I have no actual data on this. Regarding internships, these are organized, competitive training programs in contrast with supervision by an individual psychologist. Some states permit supervised experience in lieu of an internship. I have no idea how the Commonwealth treats this. It might be worthwhile to contact the licensure board.

For information about psychology internships the appropriate resource is: http://www.appic.org

Best of luck.

David