National Christian Counselors Association (NCCA)

Has anyone heard anything good or bad about the National Christian Counselors Association (NCCA)? Thanks

 

If I recall Josh Walston's Guide to Christian Distance Learning correctly, it seems that many of the less-than-wonerful Christian distance learning institutions tried to make it appear that NCCA was accrediting their Christian counseling/pastoral counseling programs, which simply wasn't the case.

 

Isn't Jimmy Clifton a member of this organization? (If I'm wrong, I apologize... but I thought I remembered that from his signature.)

Just a helpful suggestion, seaquest: When you make a post like this, be sure to include a link to the web site of the entity about which you seek opinions. It makes it easier for everyone and doesn't force them to work so hard Googling it and guessing if the site they found is the one you're talking about.

I presume you mean this place: [b]http://ncca.org[/b]

Aside from whomever designed their web site needing to be shot, from what I recall when I checked it out in the past, it's legit... at least in the sense that its heart is in the right place and doesn't really pretend to be anything it's not, etc. I mean, from my recollection, it's not a rip off or anything like that.

I get uncomfortable when any private, predominantly membership organization touts that it "certifies" and/or, more importantly, "licenses" counselors. That, it seems to me, is a state function. Training, however, and other typical membership benefits, seem like a prefectly respectable thing for any such organization to do.

As a parenthetical aside, it is my personal opinion that such organizations should, as part of their codes of ethics, require of their members that the line between counseling of the psychological (and usually secular) type never be confused with "Christian" or "Biblical" counseling; and that practitioners never attempt to solve solely with prayer and the quoting of scripture that which only licensed psychology professionals should be addressing in a clinical setting. The consequences, when that sort of thing happens, can be dire. Click here for an example of what I'm talking about.

 

Re: Re: National Christian Counselors Association (NCCA)

You use parentheses "everywhere" but in your parenthetical aside. Go figure.

 

Re: Re: Re: National Christian Counselors Association (NCCA)

I figure it would be like writing "Dr. John Doe, PhD"

 

reply to NCCA

Thanks to all for the quick response! My fault, I should have listed the website address.
To DesElm, thanks for the link. I think that it would be irresponsible that if someone was shot that one would just pray over them and expect them to get well. Call 911.
Christian counselors do have an important place. And I think proper training is crucial, that's why the original posted question.
Check out, http://www.degree.net/books/bearsguide.htm. The people who are really trying to help others get stuck in the same boat as the quacks and the snake oil salesman.
Again, Many thanks.

 

Here's what I wrote about them in the last edition (1994) of Name It & Frame It. Keep in mind that the information here was current at the time of publication - since I've dropped out of the field, I have no idea what NCCA and its cohorts are doing these days . . .

I seem to recall having some dialogue with Richard Arno, head honcho of NCAA, back when this was published. He was quite cordial despite the fact that I had essentially called his operation a sham.

There is, incidentally, a legitimate Christian Counseling organization: It's the American Association of Christian Counselors, based in Virginia and run by a former professor in Liberty University's master's degree program in counseling. There is also NANC - the National Association of Nouthetic Counselors, which is based on Jay Adams' school of thought and has a long history in conservative Christian schools such as Westminster. Both AACC and NANC are legit within the context of their framework - NACC, on the other hand, is still a sham.

(The difference between AACC and NANC? Nouthetic counseling is pure Biblical counseling, according to its proponents, to the extent that many of them will trash psychology per se, to the extent of calling it "psychoheresy." AACC is more of a professional counterpart to the secular American Counseling Association and recognizes the legitimacy of psychology. But that's a discussion for another place and another time, although I'm sure this thread will not divert itself to such a discussion - without my furher input.)

 

I recently had a critique of the National Christian Counselors Association published. It is from the perspective of a biblical counselor and may be helpful for those considering the NCCA and the Arnos' form of counseling.

 

Interesting article. My memory may be faulty but I seem to recall that Arno had his PhD from some school like Newport University that was unaccredited. In any case, Levicoff called Arno's entity something like an appalling credential mill. I appreciate your scriptural perspective and would add that to my knowledge nobody has demonstrated any scientific validity to his system. But then why would they since the Drs Arno have no accredited academic basis to delve into "psychology". The strange thing is that this organization has proliferated and I believe some of its off shoots offer degrees up to the doctor level and counseling credentials. People then go set up an office and can counsel people with their credentials on the wall (with names like Licensed Clinical Pastoral Counselor or whatever they call themselves that mimics state credentials).

 

Reminds me of this famous article about questionable credentials:
http://www.dreichel.com/articles/dr_zoe.htm

 

The 54 questions were not created by the Arnos. They ARE the questions on the FIRO-B.

 

A couple of studies question the validity of the FIRO-B. Here is an example.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241731571_An_Examination_of_the_Construct_Validity_of_the_FIRO-B

The Myers-Briggs site pushes the FIRO-B which is funny because of the fact that as much as we all like the Myers-Briggs, it too doesn't have any solid scientific validity and the mother and daughter that invented it were not Psychologists.

So, what you seem to be saying is that Arno and NCCA took a multi-pronged approach dragging in Greek philosophers and faulty measurements. Perhaps because they had no idea what they were doing nor understanding of psychometrics.

And according to Burgos, no solid scriptural foundation either. I imagine they didn't have accredited theological credentials either so not surprising that they messed up in two fields.

 

Yup. It has become the business culture (and elsewhere) equivalent of "what is your sign". In this case, "I'm an ISTJ".

 

That is a good conclusion.

 

Here is a comparison regarding certification requirements for NCCA and ACBC:

NCCA:

Method: "Temperament therapy is based on helping you discover what your God-given temperament really is and exploring ways that you can change your life to develop your innate strengths and smooth off the rough edges."
a. Written responses to 50 ethical questions posed by the N.C.C.A.’s Licensing Board of Examiners.
b. A signed Application for Certification/Membership form and a signed copy of N.C.C.A.’s Code of Ethical Standards.
c. Administering the A.P.S. to 10 individuals and (3) hours of clinical supervision under the direction of an assigned and approved clinical supervisor.
d. Completion of courses: Basic Christian Counseling; Temperament Theory; Testing/Measurements; Christian Counseling: Integrating Temperament and Psychology (courses are DVDs or a book)

Total cost: est. $250
Time: a few months
CEU requirement: None​

ACBC:

Method: "Biblical counseling is the personal discipleship ministry of God’s people to others under the oversight of God’s church, dependent upon the authority and sufficiency of God’s Word through the work of the Holy Spirit. Biblical counseling seeks to reorient disordered desires, affections, and behaviors toward a God-designed anthropology in an effort to restore true worship of God and right fellowship with others."
a. 1000 pp. of assigned reading
b. 40 hrs of training
c. Affirmation of ACBC's ethical and theological standards
d. 10 of counseling observation
e. 2 exams (i.e., counseling and theology of counseling) totaling 100+ pp. of writing
f. 50 hours of supervision by an ACBC fellow

Total cost: $850-1500
Time: 2-5 years
CEU requirement: 20 CEUs biannually​

​

 

None of which have anything close to the education and supervision required of Licensed Professional Counselors or Clinical Social Workers.

 

ACBC (Association of Certified Biblical Counselors for which you wrote the critique of the specific Christian counseling method) likewise provides some highly questionable advice through its Board of Trustees members such as; Dr. John Street (https://biblicalcounseling.com/about/leadership/), See this link: https://julieroys.com/podcast/should-christian-women-endure-abuse-a-response/

 

Omg that was bizarre. That guy (Dr. John Street NOT to be confused with John Stonestreet) had a YouTube video of himself counseling a couple. I watched and almost broke out laughing. It was an amateurish parody of counseling. He was missing cues in what the guy was saying in his interaction with his wife and basically taking the guy's side.

Again, ACBC standards posted above while better than NCCA are far below the major Life Coaching certification association as I recall and far far below the education, training, and supervision requirements of a Licensed Professional Counselor, etc. They don't know what they don't know in terms of counseling techniques, issues, and so on. Okay to a point but not a substitute for people who need counseling/therapy.

 

Apples and oranges. ACBC certification is not intended as a vocational license and biblical counseling does not accept the medicalization of myriad problems.