SATS or University of Wales, Lampeter

Hi,
It's me again.... I was posting on another thread looking into doing a MA from a Catholic university, the RA route, but all proved to be not exactly what I was looking for. The Catholic Distance University looked great, but not RA accredited.

Then the thread began speaking about SATS. So I went ahead and sent them my transcripts along with application for admission to their Master of Theology. I have an MBA I just completed from Baker College and about 15 hours in Bible\Religion at the undergraduate level. Anyway, I was accepted into the program. Once thing I really liked about SATS is everything was done via email or fax and they get back to you quickly.

While I was awaiting my response from SATS, I discovered the University of Wales, Lampeter master's programs. So I applied, but this is all done via snail mail. I applied for the MA in World Religions but may change that to theology should I go that route.

My question is this to those that might have some insight, being a USA resident, which of the two (if one is better) is more widely accepted in the US should I wish to enter a doctorate program or perhaps teach? I know from the discussions that SATS is newer but it is completely legit and they are implementing the Doctor of Theology which could be of interest to me later.

Thanks in the advance, you guys are the best! I can't tell you the knowledge I have gained from this site!

Teri

 

Which Masters degree (SATS v. Lampeter) will be a better ticket into a Doctoral program? I don't know that anyone can answer that question with much confidence. After all, on what would they base their answer? It might just come down to the question of which Doctoral program. UNISA? You might want to go with SATS as the UNISA people will be familiar with the SATS program. If it's a US Doctoral program then my guess is that it won't matter much and you should go for the program that is a better fit for you. Good luck.
Jack

 

Both are fine schools and will serve you well, as other posters here have been so served by both schools. I am a great fan of SATS, but Wales has the redoubtable Xinzhong Yao, the best current expositor of Confucianism bar none (and that includes Wannabe-Confucius-in-Birkenstocks-driving-a-Volvo-to-Starbucks, the endlessly loquacious Dr Tu Weiming of Harvard). Wales will be a lot more expensive, but cost should not be your primary factor--if you can get away with it. Let us know as you get more information, and best of luck to you. Janko

 

South African degrees either are becoming more respected in the USA or else I am just now becoming aware of that acceptance.

Certainly if you were considering doctoral work in a SA Uni or SATS itself, then the SATS MTh would be quite efficient for that purpose. Other advantages of SATS are the modest cost and quick response time.

On the other hand, IMO the UK uni is far better known. However, I would be surprised if it allowed you entrance into the MTh unless you do addl work to qualify.

That SATS would admit you into a masters with no undergrad major major in Theology , I think, is contrary to the practice of UK schools. Peter or Cory would know.

As for Protestant Evangelical higher Christian Ed in the USA, neither the MTh from a UK school nor a MTh from SATS is very likely to gain you entrance into the PhD or ThD in Theology at any school which falls within the perimeters of that qualification IMO. Schools of this ilk are very demanding as to prerequisites as this example will suggest:

http://www.tms.edu/dth.asp

IMO the degree from the UK school will serve you better in more ways and in more contexts than will one from SATS . Why not find out with more exactness by bouncing the question off of several schools which offer docs and in which you might want to do post grad work? Ask them directly , which MTh would more likely would get you into PhD work the UK one or the SATS one?

Best of "luck,"

Bill

 

From my investigating schools, looking into SA and Uk degrees, and teaching in various seminaries and Christian colleges, I would say that the SA degrees are more widely accepted in Christian academic circles than secular academic circles.

As noted from some of the links provided in the previous posts, there are a number of Christian scholars that have seminary and teaching positions.

But, from people I have spoken with, the UK degrees appaear to have more acceptance, though the SA degrees are gaining notoriety. For example, I am looking at am MA in Islamic Studies from UNISA and there are several UNISA D.Litt. graduates that are teaching in secular schools with their Islamic studies programs.

 

Hi Teri. I don't have a whole lot of insights, but I have plenty of opinions.

I'm inclined to think that SATS and Lampeter are two rather different things. Not so much in terms of their legitimacy, but more in terms of their orientation.

SATS describes itself this way:

Our mission is to provide Christocentric, Biblical distance education and training to Christians, and pastors in particular, within their local church environment, to equip them to be Holy Spirit empowered members of God's household.

http://www.sats.edu.za/about.php?ref=mission

The University of Wales at Lampeter, in contrast, is a public university with a long established and well regarded Department of Theology and Religious Studies.

http://www.lamp.ac.uk/trs/Postgraduate/taught_degrees.htm

Their lineup of taught postgraduate degrees includes all of this:

MA Religious Experience
MA Death and Immortality
MA Celtic Christianity
MA Theology
MA Religion, Politics and International Relations
MA Marian Studies
MA Ecological Theology
MA The World's Religions
MA Monastic Studies
MA Liturgy
MA Indic Spiritual Traditions
MA Islamic Studies
MTh Church History
MMin (Master of Ministry)
DMin (Doctorate of Ministry)
We also, in conjunction with the Department of Philosophy, offer
MA in The Body: Eastern and Western Perspectives

I'd say that Lampeter seems to take a much broader view of its subject than does SATS.

I believe that Lampeter is historically Church of England, but it seems to have considerable Catholic input. (The MA in Marian Studies suggests it and the MA in Monastic Studies apparently is partially taught in a Welsh Cistercian monastery where students follow the schedule of the monks.) The MA in Religious Experience sounds like it incorporates a lot of philosophy and psychology, while the MAs in Islamic Studies and in Indic Spirituality are something else again. (And not likely to be very Christocentric or Biblical.) I expect that the expansive vision carries over into the theology and ministry degrees, proper.

The same thing is suggested by the Theology and Religious Studies research units:

Centre for the Comparative Study of Modern British and European Religious History

Centre for Contemporary Approaches to the Bible

Centre for Contemporary and Pastoral Theology

Centre for Islamic Law and Culture

Centre for Philosophy and Religion

Centre for the Study of Liturgy and Architecture

Centre for the Study of Religion in Celtic Societies

Centre for the Study of the World's Religions

Centre for Western Esotericism

Centre for Research into Religious Experience

http://www.lamp.ac.uk/trs/Main_pages/research_centres.htm

 

Thank you all for the great advise! I am leaning towards SATS because I know they are implementing the Doctoral program. But besides that, they are faster in responding and everything can be done via email. With Lampeter, it is the standard distant education, they mail you a course pack, and then you complete it all by mail, but they could have it to where you send your work via email, I am unsure about that. Of course the price of the SATS degree program cannot be beat!

I have also heard more experiences from SATS students or grads then I have from Lampeter, at least on this board.

I wonder though since they don't use coursework, how would a transcript coming from SATS look? Has anyone actually seen their transcript from SATS? Just curious how that would look, if it just lists the degree and concentration area or if they break it down somehow.

 

I believe that what you will find is that you will not have a transcript in the usual sense. It will likely show that you registered for the same graduate course, let's call it Th6000, over and over until your degree is completed.
Jack

 

Just curious: In light of your not having an undergraduate degree in theology, did SATS make any recommendations to you for you to do their structured MTh or did they recommend the thesis only track? Tom

 

In the initial offer, they gave me the choice, but I am not admitted to every area they have available. I was interested in Church History, but it was not a choice for me. I will probably choose the structured route should I accept the offer because as I understand it, I can do "mini-thesis" in more then one area of interest.

 

I could be wrong on this, but I would think most schools are concerned when admitting students if they will be able to complete graduate level work. Since I have already completed an MBA even though it had nothing to do with theology, maybe this lessoned their undergraduate theology degree pre-req. So I wonder if someone applied with just an undergraduate degree with a handful of theology courses, if they would have been as lenient or perhaps would have required taking their Bachelor of Theology first? So maybe each school has their pre-reqs but take it on a case-be-case basis?

 

SATS may very well have factored in the MBA when considering your application. It's an issue which probably would involve much opionating as to whether a proven ability to succeed in grad work is equal to a thorough undergrad preparation in a subject. Probably were the masters in Psychology, or Biology or Math, an appropriate BA would be required. Should it be for Theology? Dunno.


There are many exceptions regularly made in USA Theological education. EG, while generally a BA is a req to enter the MDiv, sometimes exceptions are made for mature students who haqve no degree. In fact, some accreditors allow 10 percent of MDiv students to have no degree at all.

 

Bill,
I was admitted to Abilene Christian University and their graduate program (MA in Christian Ministry) with no religious undergrad degree. I had around 12 semester hours or so in religious subjects. I would have been admitted into their MDiv program just as easily, but since I lived far away and the MDiv requires on campus studies, it just wasn't possible.

Admittedly, I also have completion of a two year full time educational program (non-degree) in religion, and even received advanced placement in the MA program. I received 9 semester hours of credit from it. But in reality, none of those classes are accredited, etc.

There were several other people in my courses from ACU who were not religious BA holders, as well.

As it has been said, it could well be a case-by-case situation, but the large number of people in the courses I took who were non-religious BA holders leads me to believe that it is fairly common, at least at ACU, who is ATS accredited.

When SATS admitted me into their MTh program, I already had the 18 semester hours from ACU, so that could have had some influence on my acceptance there.

clint

 

Hi Clint -

I know in reading your previous posts on SATS that you were enrolled for a period of time and chose the thesis route. How did that work? Did you write a bit of your chosen area and turn it in to your instructor for review and comment?

Just trying to grasp how the work is monitored.

Thanks!

 

Well, yeah, I think thats about how it works in theory. I actually didn't get that far. As mentioned in previous threads, I had to withdraw from the program since I am leaving the mission field (and also my financial sponsors who funded my religious education).

At the point I withdrew, I was in conversation with my assigned mentor to determine exactly how my thesis would be shaped and formed. We were developing my topic and determining the perspective from which I would approach the topic.

Sorry not to be more help.

clint

 

No Bill, I think you make a good and valid point. There is a distinction between a Masters in Theology proper and a Masters in Ministry. No doubt.

I was only pointing out that is it possible for one without a religious undergrad degree or even many hours in religion to be accepted into a fully accredited graduate program in a religous subject.

I wasn't making the distinction that you clearly made in your most recent post.

clint

 

Basileus Bill (we love ya, man)

Clint, please forgive my dear and honoured friend Bill his misaimed elenchus. He's been puny. More to the pernt, he's pretty new as a perfesser, and as one of the Greek poets puts it every king is stern whose rule is new.

I hope that Teri understands that she is watching one of Degreeinfo's truly great minds at play. That would be Bill's, not mine or, with all due respect, Clint's.
He and I are but attendant cherubim capering and squinting at the shekinah glory.

Janko the Mad Priest

 

Re: Basileus Bill (we love ya, man)

Yes, Janko is correct.

Oh and I took no offense from Bill's comments. My last post was trying to say that I thought he was right in what he said.

And yes, I simply stand in awe of Bill's thoughts and comments on many occasions.

clint