HOW TO IDENTIFY AN ILLEGITIMATE SCHOOL

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by UWIJAMAICA, Aug 8, 2001.

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  1. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    Accreditation, and authority to grant degrees are separate issues in education.

    Worldwide, only governmental agencies can give authority to award degrees (by way of a license, charter or other deed). If otherwise, suspect, and do not get involved.

    Accreditation may be awarded by either a governmental or non-governmental agency, and authority to grant degrees is a pre-requisite for accreditation.This temporal structure must exist, otherwise suspect,and do not get involved.

    Use this mechanism to identify diploma mills and illegitimate schools.

    Rajkumar
     
  2. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I would be extremely interested in knowing what UWIJAMAICA (and his/her colleagues) think of Berne University, located in New Hampshire, accredited by the government of St. Kitts & Nevis.

    And, perhaps, Knightsbridge University, located in the UK, accredited by Barbuda.
     
  3. Byran Lee

    Byran Lee member

    Funny, UWIJAMAICA's (an evaluation specialist as listed in his/her info)first post is merely an attempt to emphasize the "great" significance of state approvals.

    ...my speculation, of course

    Cheers,

    Byran
     
  4. I'd be "very" careful about using "authority to grant degrees" or approval as any part of a set of criteria by which to evaluate schools, without traditional accreditation. Traditional accreditation usually means USA regional accreditation, Canadian Association of Universities and Colleges, Association of Commonwealth Universities. Any other "authority" must be held up for examination. Countries and states can fall out of favor on these matters, and additionally their rules and regulations can change. The former Soviet Union is another matter which I know little about.

    Bottom line is whether the degree will be considered credible for all of the following: entrance to higher degrees, teaching in colleges and universities (depending on the level of degree), licensing, publication, and career advancement. A perons who does a degree thinking it is solely for personal growth is a fool. He or she will want to trade on that degree sometime and it will need to be seen by most/all authorities as credible.
    Earon
     
  5. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    Dear John:
    Let me respond to the folowing:

    "I would be extremely interested in knowing what UWIJAMAICA (and his/her colleagues) think of Berne University, located in New Hampshire, accredited by the government of St. Kitts & Nevis.
    And, perhaps, Knightsbridge University, located in the UK, accredited by Barbuda.

    1. I know very little about Knightsbridge University, except its occasional advertisement in the Economist Magazine. Further,here in the Caribbean, I have not encountered qualification(s) from that university. Also, it is not listed in any of the directories of recognized colleges, used by Caribbean authorities.

    2. The concept of foreign accreditation is extremely common. In fact, I know of many recognized universities outside of the USA, which are acredited by the regional accreditation mechanism in the USA.

    3. To the best of my knowledge, The Campus of Berne University in St. Kitts is incorporated in that country, and chartered and accredited by that Government. Also, its campus is housed in the Fitzroy Bryant College of Further Education, which is the National Tertiary Institution of St. Kitts, affiliated with the University of the West Indies.

    3. Also, As Berne University participates in the USA Title IV program, it is required to maintain an administrative office in the USA, in addition to its offices and campus in St. Kitts.

    4. The Federation of St. Kitts & Nevis is one of five Caribbean Nations with a dedicated Act of Parliament, to award charters and accredit colleges of higher education. The others are Jamaica, Grenada, Trinidad and Barbados.

    5. I have an extensive file on Berne University. It has been around for about 8 years, and has brought much needed resources to the Caribbean. Professors from the various campuses of the University of The West Indies also serve as faculty with Berne University (summer residency and dissertation advisement). In particular, Berne University has made a significant contricution to teacher training in the Caribbean.

    6. Berne University was recently re-accredited by the Accreditation Board of the Federation of St. Kitts & Nevis, for a second term.

    7. The following is an excerpt of communication sent to Berne Alumni, by the Vice Chancellor of the University of the West Indies, Professor Rex Nettleford:

    -QUOTE-
    "Thank you for your letter of May 27, 2001 expressing your concern about "recent claims by individuals and credential evaluation agencies that officers of the University of the West Indies have been denouncing Berne University".

    As Vice Chancellor, I would certainly not condone such behavior. The University of the West Indies is not an accrediting body and our official position is not to denounce any other nationally and internationally accredited higher education institution".
    -END OF QUOTE-
    Let me state that in the Caribbean, we accept and process qualifications from colleges listed in the Directory of the Association of Commonwealth Universities & Colleges, and the International Handbook of Universities. This is also the standard used by USA institutions, with which many Caribbean institutions collaborate, and have reciprocity arrangements.

    I trust that you will find this information useful.
     
  6. Peter French

    Peter French member

    And your point is?

    More particularly in the context of traditional universities in your region recognising the awards of Berne, St Clements, Uniasia and the steadily growing group that are currently exiting South Dakota - all taking shelter under the local Government recognition in your parts, or, y the local Governments prepared ness to turn a blind eye to their activities, your point is?

    P J French
     
  7. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    Dear Mr. French:
    Your wrote:

    "the local Governments prepared ness to turn a blind eye to their activities, your point is"

    How are so many fraudulent schools allowed to operate in the USA?
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    In the US, the criminal justice system is heavily tilted in favor of individual rights over government interest, so it's been possible for fraudulent schools to operate through loopholes. The good news is that once the government shows an interest in a phony school, they've generally been able to shut them down.

    Bruce
     
  9. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    The information on Berne vis a vis UWI is interesting. However the fact remains that in the extensive survey of US registrars done last fall, 70% 235 of 335) said they would never accept St. Kittsian accreditation, and 19% said almost never.
     
  10. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    Dear John:
    It is quite clear from your postings that you have some profound bitterness toward Berne University, maybe that feeling is misplaced, and should be linked to MIGS.

    We in the Caribbean are proud of Berne University, In fact its faculty and students continue to provide consultation to many Caribbean projects and governments. Further, at the UWI distance-learning confernce held in 1999, a Berne University faculty gave a key note address on the Berne's model of education.

    Thus far, all your predictions and wishes for Berne University have hot been realized.

    I don't know about the reliability and validity of your survey methodology, and at the minimum, I trust that you included every Caribbean country, and did not selectively target St. Kitts.

    Rest assured John that St. Kitts educational accreditation is accepted internationally by employers, regionallly accredited and royal chartered colleges. St. Kitts, in particular, has produced many scholars.

    I can further advise you that qualifications from colleges accredited by the Government of St. Kitts & Nevis are accepted by the City University of New York, Howard University, Medical University of North Carolina, all British Universities, just to name a few.

    With respect to Berne, there are many graduates who are deans and senior faculty members of internationally acclaimed colleges.

    In general, lack of knowledge, misunderstanding and/or "politics" may result in attack on a university, targeted at a graduate, and we saw this this recently with Nova Southeastern.

    In closing let me say that you should not invest much time and other resources in that survey (Rich's so called dissertation), as given the recent smear of your integrity with MIGS, it will be difficult to convince the world that you mean well.

    My advice: LEAVE WELL ALONE

    All the best John.
     
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    True. But what has this to do with Berne? It is not regionally accredited. Are you agreeing that Berne is actually located in New Hampshire? The reason I ask is because you immediately go on to say:

    That appears to be the case. Do you have any information on the process Berne had to undergo before it was accredited by St. Kitts? Assuming that Berne underwent some kind of inspection, who performed it? St. Kitts has no higher education infrastructure of its own except for one community college which is under the oversight of the University of the West Indies. So where did St. Kitts find educators with the necessary experience in doctoral level education to evaluate Berne?

    If that's the case, does Berne just rent space from Fitzroy Bryant College of FE, or does this indicate any official recognition on the part of the University of the West Indies?

    That's false, I believe. Title IV regulations do not require foreign participants to maintain offices in the United States.

    I should also point out that Title IV participation does not represent US government endorsement of a foreign school's academic quality. It is only recognition that the school is approved in its home jurisdiction and has agreed to comply with US federal student loan regulations.

    Nobody doubts that St. Kitts is a soverign nation with the legal right to charter universities on its territory.

    The problem revolves around what Americans call the 'accreditation' function, the quality assurance aspect.

    Whether that's admirable or appalling depends on whether Berne is academically credible.

    Again, that means nothing if the initial accreditation wasn't credible.

    Fair enough, UWI has not been "denouncing" Berne. But as Vice-Chancellor Nettleford points out, UWI is not an accrediting body, so it is in no position to endorse Berne either. That appears to undercut your point #2, which attempted to associate Berne with Fitzroy Bryant College of FE.

    So we are back where we started.

    Are you speaking for the University of the West Indies? Are you willing to give us your name and tell us officially that the University of the West Indies accepts Berne credits in transfer and Berne degrees for faculty/staff employment or graduate school admissions?

    I'm not sure if it was or not.
     
  12. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Would you like to post a list of them?
     
  13. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    Hi Billy:

    I have in my possession, the Accreditation Handbook of the Ministry of Education (Federation of St. Kitts & Nevis), which sets forth the requirements for provisional accreditation, full accreditation and re-affirmation.

    Detailed also are conditions for revocation of charter and accreditation, and these were applied to Grace University. Also, as you may be aware, the standards in St.Kitts are comparable to Regional Accreditation standards in the USA. You should be aware that there are only two Universities in St. Kitts that are fully accredited (Ross University and Berne University), the legitimate others are provisionally accredited.

    Berne seems to be the preferred non-traditional school given that is has a real residency, followed by a FDMP (faculty directed mentorship program, hence real student-professor contact.
     
  14. Peter French

    Peter French member

    As you seem so convinced as to the quality and worthiness of Berne, and are quite familiar with this discussion groups opinions etc.,

    (1) who are you in real life,

    (2) who have you posted as before, and

    (3) what is your association with Berne.

    It is also comforting to notice that you are a close friend of "Billy", but then my aunt is the Pope, so anything is possible I suppose.

    P J French
     
  15. Byran Lee

    Byran Lee member

    I, too, share the same concerns as you do.

    Regards,

    Byran
     
  16. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    I am merely a credential evaluation specialist and social commentator on caribbean afairs.


    Whatever your plans are, please do not attempt to go to the Carribean using a qualification awarded by a college that is not: regionally accredited (USA), listed in the international handbook of universities or in the directory of the association of commonwealth universities and colleges.

    It can go a little further, if you travel to the Caribbean, and indicate on the immigration form that you are a "Dr.", then be prepared to produce a valid state or national license as an MD, or a valid doctoral degree (school must be listed in one of the abovementioned directories).These directories are well known to the administrators and clerical officers of the immigration departments.

    Last year, an American (USA), was just about to be appointed Attorney General in the US Virgin Islands, when a Kittian born Commissioner of Education realized that he had a bogus PhD from a university in the USA (yes, I mean the USA).

    Guys, the truth is, while in the USA, you may tolerate and recognize bogus degrees and degress from "less than wonderful" schools, WE in the Caribbean have ZERO tolerance for such practices.

    RAJKUMAR
     
  17. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    I am merely a credential evaluation specialist and social commentator on caribbean afairs.


    Whatever your plans are, please do not attempt to go to the Carribean using a qualification awarded by a college that is not: regionally accredited (USA), listed in the international handbook of universities or in the directory of the association of commonwealth universities and colleges.

    It can go a little further, if you travel to the Caribbean, and indicate on the immigration form that you are a "Dr.", then be prepared to produce a valid state or national license as an MD, or a valid doctoral degree (school must be listed in one of the abovementioned directories).These directories are well known to the administrators and clerical officers of the immigration departments.

    Last year, an American (USA), was just about to be appointed Attorney General in the US Virgin Islands, when a Kittian born Commissioner of Education realized that he had a bogus PhD.

    Guys, the truth is, while in the USA, you may tolerate and recognize bogus degrees and degress from "less than wonderful" schools, WE in the Caribbean have ZERO tolerance for such practices.

    RAJKUMAR
     
  18. UWIJAMAICA

    UWIJAMAICA member

    I am merely a credential evaluation specialist and social commentator on Caribbean affairs.


    Whatever your plans are, please do not attempt to go to the Carribean using a qualification awarded by a college that is not: regionally accredited (USA), listed in the international handbook of universities or in the directory of the association of commonwealth universities and colleges.

    It can go a little further, if you travel to the Caribbean, and indicate on the immigration form that you are a "Dr.", then be prepared to produce a valid state or national license as an MD, or a valid doctoral degree (school must be listed in one of the abovementioned directories).These directories are well known to the administrators and clerical officers of the immigration departments.

    Last year, an American (USA), was just about to be appointed Attorney General in the US Virgin Islands, when a Kittian born Commissioner of Education realized that he had a bogus PhD.

    Guys, the truth is, while in the USA, you may tolerate and recognize bogus degrees and degress from "less than wonderful" schools, WE in the Caribbean have ZERO tolerance for such practices.

    RAJKUMAR
     
  19. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    That's very admirable. Does that mean that you have decided to retract your defense of Berne?

    If not, the question remains: Why should anyone consider Berne academically superior to the average California-approved university?

    Simply citing a listing in the IHU does not answer the question, unless the criteria that the IHU editors use in deciding on inclusion are credible and explicit.

    As far as I can see, the IHU criteria are more political than academic. The editors do not undertake their own assessments of all the universities on earth. That would be an overwhelming job. Instead they simply defer to each UN member's own local decisions.

    In St. Kitts' case, those are the decisions of a tiny nation with only one community college on its territory, operated under the oversight of and as a branch campus of the UWI.

    But suddenly St. Kitts produces this elaborate (on paper) "accreditation" system for universities that they don't even have. And suddenly American schools that would probably not be able to achieve accreditation in the US pop up on St. Kitts and rapidly acquire St. Kitts accreditation and hence entry into the IHU.

    That presents at least the appearance of an off-shore "accreditation haven". But one that, unlike a bogus accreditor like WAUC, provides entry into a handbook that many university admissions officers use to identify legitimate foreign schools.

    Nobody is denying that many questionable schools operate from the United States. But those schools are not being defended on this group while you have been defending Berne.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    I think this is an important distinction. When Bill and I were going around and around about MIGS, he eloquently--and correctly--raised this issue. Inclusion in the IHU is a description, not an evaluation. The included schools are depicted as being part of their respective countries' higher education systems.

    However, inclusion in the IHU is one of the more prevailing indicators of acceptability of a degree to admissions officials in the U.S. Degrees from schools so listed were, for example, far more acceptable than those from DETC-accredited schools. And they were light years beyond non-GAAP schools. (This is from a recent study conducted by John Bear and analyzed by me.)

    My support of earning a degree issued by the CEU was based on its IHU listing (and also its PIER World Series listing, which tends to have even greater acceptance).

    But when asked about schools from the Carribbean, admissions officials roundly rejected them. I would suspect that Berne's "accreditation squatting" doesn't help matters, either. (Just as MIGS's behavior in the same fashion shines no glory on the CEU or its degrees.)

    So, would a degree from Berne be acceptable for admission to a U.S. (accredited) school? Maybe in some cases. But not generally. I would also suspect that such acceptance may, in most cases, be a function of omission rather than evaluation and acceptance. But that is one tough hypothesis to test.

    Rich Douglas
     

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