Holistic sciences colleges

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Ark, Oct 17, 2005.

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  1. Ark

    Ark New Member

    I am exploring the possibilities of taking a degree in holistic and/or metaphysical sciences and would like to find out if anyone knows any significant info about
    University of Metaphysical Sciences (http://umsonline.org/).

    And also, does anyone have any (positive or negative) significant information on Clayton College of Natural Health.

    I know the schools above are not accredited. The question is if they are legal. Clayton College of Natural Health is mentioned in Bears' Guide as legitimate not accredited degree granting school.
    I have 1998 edition. Does anyone have any additional info?

    Thank you in advance!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2005
  2. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    According to Bears' Guide, 2003 edition, Clayton College of Natural Health claims accredition from the non-wonderful World Association of Universities and Colleges as well as the unrecognized American Association of Drugless Practioners and the unrecognized American Naturopathic Medfical Certification and Accreditation Board and none of the fourteen states regulating naturopathy grants licensure to those with distance learning credentials.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2005
  3. Ark

    Ark New Member

    Ted, Thank you
    Clayton does not claim accreditation by World Association of Universities and Colleges, however it does claim the rest of the unrecognized agencies' accreditation you mentioned. But is it considered to be a diploma mill?

    I'd still appreciate any info on University of Metaphysical Sciences (http://umsonline.org/)

    Thank you!
     
  4. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    You are correct. According to their website (www.ccnh.edu), Clayton College of Natural Health does not claim WAUC, but they apparently were as of the 2003 Bears' Guide.
     
  5. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    There's always Canyon College. (Kidding! It's a mill! Stay away!)

    Then there's Warnborough University's distance learning Master of Arts in Metaphysics. (Oh... wait... that's probably a mill, too... at the very least it's not authorized by DFES to grant degrees in the U.K.)

    And, of course, there's the John F. Kennedy University School of Holistic Studies. (Er... wait... that one's not accredited, either.)

    How 'bout Passion University's wanna-be-impressive list of associate through doctoral degrees in various holistic areas. (Oh, wait... damn! That one's not accredited, either!)

    Okay... wait a minute... here's a little something from a school that's actually accredited: Harcum College.

    Still... are you starting to see the pattern yet? In many circles, words like "metaphysical" and "holistic" cannot be uttered in the same sentence with words like "legitimate" and "accredited" without it being either inherently oxymoronic; or without it being a clear and simple declaration that the former two can't be the latter two. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with that... I'm just warning that that's what you're gonna' run into a lot. That's really the biggest point I'm trying to make.

    That said, there are legit metaphysical and holistic courses out there -- maybe even entire distance learning degrees -- from accredited institutions... but just be really careful! There are a lot of nutty programs out there in metaphysical and holistic studies and training. Just take an extra moment to carefully check-out anything you find and that seems to impress you at first.

    Also, be sure to read the various articles on quackwatch.org regarding metaphysical and holistic stuff, just generally.
     
  6. fortiterinre

    fortiterinre New Member

    I have a friend at Clayton who is completely satisfied with her course experiences and is convinced she is receiving a good education. She is studying just for her own benefit but is an RN and has an RA MBA and master's in project management. I was surprised, but she maintains she is happy there.
     
  7. Ark

    Ark New Member

    Gregg,
    thank you for the sarcastic message (God knows I needed that), but like I said, I knew that colleges I was inquiring about were not accredited. I needed to find out whether anyone knows about any illegitimacy about them or not. Unaccredited does not mean illegal or diploma mill, does it? By the way, FYI (if we are talking about the "pattern here"), there are four totally accredited holistic Universities (or programs), granting PhD, ND, etc., however non of them is offering degrees by the means of distance learning.



    In this context, fortiterinre, thank you for the info about your friend!
     
  8. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    According to the state of Oregon...yes, although they make a couple, rare exceptions.

    That being said, this progam is approved by the State of California, for what that's worth:

    http://www.aucm.org/About.asp

    This one has national accreditation:

    http://www.swiha.org/aboutus.html

    Here is one that is apparently RA:

    http://www.salve.edu/graduatestudies/accredit.html

    It has a degree in "holistic counseling".
     
  9. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Actually, I was just shooting for "entertaining," but... what the heck... I'll take "sarcastic." ;)

    Absolutely not... at least not categorically, except, perhaps, in Oregon, as TCord1964 correctly pointed-out.

    Right... and I believe I said something at least akin to that in my entertai... er... I mean... sarcastic post. I'm just counseling to stay on your toes as you explore programs and make sure that any which interest you are actually worth the powder it would take to blow 'em up. It sounds like you're already doing that, though... so that's a good thing.
     
  10. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Hi Ark - Maybe you'd consider doing your search in a different way. Rather than asking if a specific school is legitimate, etc, you'd be willing to say what you're interested in studying and then we might match you up with a known legitimate school.
    Is that too "alternative?"
    Jack
     
  11. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Re: Re: Holistic sciences colleges

    Hey, wait! JFK, if we're talking about the JFK in Orinda, CA/Walnut Creek, CA, is a regionally accredited school with a good, if unique, transpersonal psychology program, a number of spiritually-influenced holistically-oriented programs, and, as mentioned, a holistic studies degree. However, as far as qualifying one to actually practice medicine (naturopathic or otherwise) see my next post...

    Oh... and as for Quackwatch... I don't put much faith in them. Stephen Barrett, who runs the thing, is a very closed-minded person who is pretty much known for being extremely biased against any sort of holistic medicine. Even when confronted with good scientific evidence, he simply refuses to change his position on anything, and therefore, his site's views are grossly out of date on many types of holistic medicine that are now considered pretty mainstream (acupuncture, chiropractic, etc.)
     
  12. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    OK, here's my take on Clayton and it's sister school, American Institute of Holistic Theology. This also applies to Westbrook University, and pretty much any other distance-based school offering naturopathic degrees. (I wrote most of the chapter on naturopathic and medical programs in the current Bears' Guide.)

    Basically, all of the programs listed above are substandard. The last I checked, the courses were extremely non-rigorous, many of the texts were the sort of holistic medicine books you'd find at Waldenbooks, rather than high-quality clinical texts... in large part because the students going there wouldn't be able to *handle* anything involving heavy-duty physiology, biology, or chemistry.

    The Clayton schools are unethical as hell and while they've figured out that World Association accreditation hurts rather than helps, they still deceive by using a bunch of fake accreditors. Westbrook sent me letters supposedly from two different accreditors that used exactly the same wording... and when I did some background checking, one accreditor was located in the back of a health food store, the other was in the home of the guy signing the paper. Both individuals were -- surprise! -- on Westbrook's board. And Clayton is just as bad... the supposed accreditor they talk so much about was started by a Clayton grad, though they've now carefully erased all online references to the fact that he got a Clayton degree.

    The worst thing is they now have a huge ton of money (which is easy when you have a bazillion students and very little costs) which they're pouring into lobbying efforts to defeat attempts to license naturopathic physicians.

    I used to work in the holistic medical field and spent a lot of time at the better medical conventions where holistic docs show up. Whenever I spoke with a naturopath, I'd always casually ask where s/he was educated. Without fail, the Clayton/Southern/Westbrook/AIHT graduates were always overconfident about their abilities and scope of practice, and in most cases, they were grossly undereducated about many of the basic skills that any healthcare provider should have.

    Clayton tries to dodge this problem by claiming that its graduates don't "practice medicine" but if you do a little research, it's clear that Clayton grads all over are claiming to diagnose/treat disease. And a number of patients have been killed at the hands of inept and unqualified grads of the various unwonderful naturopathic programs.

    The unfortunate thing is the options for legitimate, accredited DL in the field are limited. I remember there was an Australian program that was highly regarded, and a smattering of individual courses at various schools, but nothing comprehensive in the US that I'm aware of.

    I wish I could give you more helpful advice, but honestly, I would very strongly recommend avoiding Clayton at all costs. It is basically just as bad (or worse, depending on your point of view) as Kennedy-Western... a crappy, unwonderful school started by a guy whose only interest was to make a ton of money... and a school that people are now under the illusion is legitimate, solely because they've spent a bazillion dollars advertising themselves and therefore have suckered so many people in, that they have a ton of people talking about what a great school they are.

    I hope that helps.
     
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Chip,

    I really have to disagree; all Quackwatch really does is apply accepted standards of scientific medical research to health claims and report the result. The fact is, there's a LOT of medical fraud out there, some of it DIS proven and some of it UN proven. I have yet to see a SINGLE instance where solid scientific research proves Dr. Barrett clearly wrong. I've heard a lot of howling from unscientific practitioners and their vic...oops, I mean, "patients" and some anecdotal stuff justifying often bizarre claims, but NEVER a solid piece of work.

    And Dr. Barrett's targets FREQUENTLY include M.D.s, D.D.S.s, and other "legitimate" professionals. He even gives support to a rather limited approach to Chiropractic.

    Having said THAT, though, I will part company with Quackwatch long enough to suggest to Ark that if he's really interested in a career as an holistic healer, he should consider attending one of the five or six accredited schools of Naturopathic Medicine. A listing is found at www.naturopathic.org along with lost of other useful information about the profession and licensure.

    A degree from one of these schools represents a credible education, IMHO, which a diploma from any of the other schools mentioned so far probably would not.
     

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