National University's Environmental Engineering Program!

I was National University's website and noticed they have an M.S. program in environmental engineering. However, after fully investigating their website, I noticed this program IS NOT ABET
accredited:
http://www.nu.edu/Academics/Schools/SOET/AppliedEngineering/degrees/720-813.html

I even wrote a faculty member and he told me ABET accreditation is not needed and one can sit for licensure in all 50 states in this faculty member's email, he states,

"thank you for your e_mail, our program has approved by WASC,not by ABET, Your Master Degree has value for getting a job or you could take any State Examination for your advancement."

I have a difficult time believing one can become a licensed engineer without ABET accreditation. Just about 90 plus percent of engineering programs in the USA seem to be ABET accredited. Maybe am I wrong, but it seems like this faculty member is incorrect..
Can somebody please tell me if I am wrong? Another puzzling aspect of this program is it does not have prerequisite courses in physics or advanced calculus. Just about any engineering program I have seen requires these courses in order to become admitted. Excuse my criticism, but it seems like this is a weaker program when compared against other engineering curriculums.
Am I wrong here too?

 

I would start by asking ABET.

http://www.abet.org/




Tom Nixon

 

Some comments:

(1) ABET accreditation is an important consideration for BS programs in engineering. However, MS programs in engineering are almost never ABET-accredited, even at the best schools.

Occasionally ABET will accredit MS programs at schools that do not offer the BS degree (e.g. the Air Force Institute of Technnology). However, the vast majority of engineering schools do offer the BS degree, and that is what ABET normally accredits.

(2) The ABET BS degree is the "gold standard" for engineering licensure; it is guaranteed to meet the educational requirements in any state. But there are only a few states where an ABET degree is actually mandatory for engineering licensure.

In most states, there are alternative ways to meet the education requirement. For example, many states will accept engineering technology BS degrees, or science BS degrees, or an engineering MS degree. Some states do not accept MS degrees from institutions that are not ABET-accredited for the BS degree (which would include NU). Typically, people without ABET degrees are required to get more work experience than those with ABET degrees.

California (where NU is based) has particularly loose education requirements. In fact, it is possible to qualify for a Professional Engineer's license in CA with 6 years of suitable work experience and no college degree at all.

In summary, you could qualify for the PE exam with an NU Environmental Engineering MS degree in some states, but not all. You would probably be required to get more work experience than someone with an ABET BS degree.

(3) It is quite possible to have a successful engineering career without being licensed. In fact, the vast majority of engineers (~ 80 %) are unlicensed.

In California, the licensing system does not include the discipline of environmental engineering. So all environmental engineers in CA are unlicensed (unless they can qualify more generally as Civil PEs).

(4) I agree that the prerequisites for the NU program are weak.

 

I did not know these eighty plus percent of engineers are unlicensed. That is a good thing to know. I want to thank you all for the info My brother is going through an engineering program at Cal Poly Pomona and he told me that ABET was of upmost importance. I even went to the ABET website and CalDog is correct, the numbers of accredited programs after the bachelor's degree level drop off significantly. As with NU's prerequisite coursework, I hope the advanced concepts of mathematics and physics are included in the engineering courses themselves or otherwise these students entering the work world are in for a load of hurt. Again, thanks for the info.

 

Basically, engineers need to be licensed if they provide engineering services directly to the general public. But most engineers don't do this.

The majority of engineers work for companies that manufacture mass-produced products (e.g. cars, aircraft, electronics, software, etc.). They don't deal with the general public, except indirectly through the sale of these products. In this case, the engineers do not need to be licensed; they fall under the so-called "industrial exemption". When it comes to mass-produced industrial designs, the government typically prefers to regulate the final product (e.g. the car or airplane), rather than the engineers that design the product.

Licensure is most important in civil engineering, where engineers are routinely consulted directly by the public to develop custom designs for a particular location (e.g. buildings, roads, water systems). In civil engineering and related fields, you probably do need a PE license to advance professionally. Most PEs are civil engineers.

An ABET BS degree is the accepted entry-level standard in engineering; anything else tends to be viewed suspiciously. It is possible, under the right circumstances, to get a good job and/or a PE license without an ABET degree. In general, however, engineering employers and state engineering boards will discriminate in favor of ABET degree holders.

 

In general for environmental engineering the requeriments are not so strict, for example a top 10 ABET accredited MS program at Georgia Institute of Technology requires that "Applicants with a science background should have a degree in atmospheric-sciences, biology, chemistry, geology, physics, or another science. A minimum of two (2) semesters of calculus is required for admission to the EnvE program."

At USC "Prerequisites: The program is available to students with Bachelor of Science degrees in science or engineering. Prerequisite courses in chemistry, environmental chemistry, environmental fluid mechanics, and water quality control will be required as determined by review of the student's undergraduate program."

National University says "Program Prerequisites
(5 courses, 19.5 quarter units)

Applicants with a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree from non-engineering curriculum should make up the deficiencies. Students will be required to take prerequisite courses based on undergraduate major and deficiencies from the following list:

SCI 101 General Chemistry
SCI 101A General Chemistry Laboratory
MNS 205 Introduction to Quantitative Methods For Business
CST 208B Calculus for Computer Science
SCI 335 Environmental Science
or
SCI 330 Ecology

These courses may be waived if their equivalents have been completed at the undergraduate level with a grade of "C" or better, or if applicants have successfully passed a challenge exam. Students who have a Bachelor of Science in Engineering or related field are exempt from the prerequisite courses."

 

As I mentioned above, the NU MS degree would not meet the education requirement for licensure in all states. It would work in some states (including California), but not all.

University engineering faculty tend to be surprisingly ill-informed about licensure issues. Most of them are unlicensed themselves, even at the best schools; it is increasingly rare to find engineers that are both PhD and PE. The four members of the NU "Applied Engineering" faculty do not appear to be licensed; their names do not turn up in the California Board's online database.

Sometimes universities hire part-time adjunct faculty from the local engineering community. Adjunct faculty with "real-world" experience are more likely to hold PE licenses than tenured faculty that have spent their entire careers in academia.