The big answer between Touro and NCU

I posted numerous questions about Touro and NCU for my PhD in education and decided on Touro. I attended Touro for one class and would like to share I have moved to NCU and like the program. I have an online degree from CSU Hayward and have taken numerous online classes; Frankly, I found the Touro dashboard inadequate and the program as a whole disjointed. When a course is delivered online, the interaction with the technology should be almost intuitive. I have enjoyed NCU’s less glamorous, but effective learner website. I don’t need to visit four different sites to work on the program and the staff at NCU have been more that accommodating. So the big answer for me between Touro and NCU was the latter.

 

I guess it's whatever you like and fits your needs. Touro seems to be a good candidate for anyone looking at a distance PhD. I chose NCU, too, and am not disappointed so far.

I would expect the utility of NCU and Touro to be about the same in X market. Time will tell. I like that NCU has some specializations in their PhD. They don't really have that at Touro.

 

Bing and Thinktank,

What is your impression of the level of comprehensiveness of NCU's online library in relation to obtaining journal articles and other resources necessary to complete your course work? Do you have to resort to a brick and mortar library to supplement their library?

I notice that on some of NCU's databases they charge a fee per journal article (approximately $12 each) and for downloading dissertations (approximately $40 each). That can run up quite a tab per course if one is is performing a comprehensive review of the research literature.

 

For me, I've got multiple sources besides NCU for research. My local university is convenient to my work and my work has an extensive research library(and librarian), and resources, to assist me.

I am not to the point where I am conducting such a literature review on my topic. So, I cannot really comment on NCU's entire library. However, I do know that if you download ProQuest dissertations it will cost $28/pdf. That could get expensive.

I did notice that if I click on NCU's "Dissertation's Research Links" link that it doesn't work. Hmmm.

At regular brick and mortars is it free to download ProQuest dissertations for PhD students? I would be interested in hearing about Touro and UMUC's programs and how their library's are for distance learners.

 

Re: Questia question

Is Questia seems similar to ebrary. Although, from what I read ebrary looks like it is bigger. NCU students have ebrary access.

 

Library Comparison

Both libraries seemed similar. NCU sent a brochure in the mail and an e-mail to explain their services.

 

The answer is Touro

For me the answer is Touro, most definitely. While I agree that their CMS is not overly intuitive, it is most functional for the purposes of pursuing a PhD. Perhaps if I were a newcomer to online learning, or an undergrad., then I might put forth that argument. I find the system easy to navigate and more than adequate for my purpose of study. I've taken 10 classes thus far; faculty is excellent, administrative services are accommodating, and research/library opportunities are abundant. Horizon Live is used for the core courses which always energizes the discussions.

Last but not least, I like the fact that Touro is a branch campus of a 'brick and mortar' institution that has been around since 1970 and has other branch campuses not only nationwide but also worldwide. A bit more established than NCU, I'd say.

Susanna

 

Re: Questia question

Questia is useful to a point. To finish a dissertation proposal, you'll most likely need to get to specific journals not included in Questia. Ultimately, you'll need to have physical access to the library of a doctoral-granting university. Most libraries welcome visiting scholars of all kinds; some will even let you check out books for free while others request a donation of $100 per year as a visiting scholar. If you are doing a dissertation requiring psychology resources and are near Pittsburgh, PA, I highly recommend checking out the research library at the Western Psychiatric Hospital, which is part of the University of Pittsburgh system.

Dave

 

Re: Re: Questia question

Where I live the State University library system is open to the public at no charge. There are some restrictions related to taking books, etc. out of the library but there is access to all books and journals for the general public (including interlibrary loans).
Hopefully this is not the exception to the rule and you could access similar services where you live.
Jack

 

Re: The answer is Touro

Yes, its a bit more established and they are growing. I believe they now have a new brick & mortar medical school, and this might help a little. But the fact that their doctorate degrees are 100% online and with no publication requirements or research history, most research I academics are not really going to go out of their way to consider a TUI grad for a traditional position.

 

For me Touro is the best choice:

- Branch campus of the brick and mortar (Touro College)
- Not for profit academic institution
- I feel the existence and link of the non accredited SCUPS to NCU will ultimately cause problems to the latter and might tarnish its name.

Eli

 

Re: Re: The big answer between Touro and NCU

Feelings are not facts and from my discussions with representatives from the North Central Association there isn't any indication that your feelings will become a reality. Let us not forget that when schools invests the significant financial resources necessary to obtain RA they are, for the most part, not going to jeopardize this investment by engaging in practices that will result in the loss of their earned accreditation and millions of dollars.

Furthermore, the problem with focusing SOLELY on NCU without concommitantly reviewing the business and academic practices of other major proprietary universities is that it fails to reveal the widespread issues that are associated with these schools including charging outrageous tuitions that are out of synch with brick and mortar schools and placing some students in significant financial debt; questionable admission policies allowing many students to enter doctoral programs when in fact their writing and communication skills are at 10th grade levels at best; Questionable levels of academic standards resulting at times in questionable "dissertations" and the issuing at times of questionable doctorates, etc.

So if we are foing to continue to make comparisons let us broaden the scope of our discussion to include those other schools so that we can objectively understand whether NCU is so irregular in its practices compared to other distance learning programs.

 

Overcoming online stigmas

Those are interesting questions.

I'm currently enrolled in an online doctoral program (I'd rather not say where) and it is frankly much more difficult than what I anticipated it would be. Due to allegations of a lack of rigor... and since there is no "classroom time"... the school had no choice but to "pile on the work"... and that they did!!! Heck, it's no sweat off their backs because it's the students who have to carry the academic course load!!!

I'm currently required to submit four different 10 page papers APA style with appropriate scholarly references. If every doctoral class is going to be like this, then I am going to be buried under a mountain of writing-paperwork. But allegations of a lack of rigor have led to this. My B&M graduate school didn't require this much writing, with the exception of the capstone project. Requiring this much writing for a standard course is... uhhhhh... a lot!!! It may not sound like a lot, but it's a lot of writing. My conscience and reputation is at stake, so I can't submit chit, which means I have to put some quality thought into each paper. If you take three classes, that's 120 pages of writing!!! Doh!!!

Online institutions have to overcome some of the stigmas that you mentioned, so that is probably why so much course work is being piled on. I can't speak for other doctoral programs, but I am pleased with this one, so far (it's a love-hate affair -- I hate the required work, but I know it's necessary and it may lead to a better life in the future). I have no desire to be a tenured professor at a major research university, so that issue is moot for my goals. I am simply a working professional who is seeking a doctoral degree for personal satisifaction because it may help me to reach some future professional goals in the secular world.

 

Re: Overcoming online stigmas

It's good to hear that your current academic experiences are positive and congruent with doctoral level studies. The standards you mention are exactly the level of performance that distance learning schools require in order to elevate the status and credibility of online degrees. Unfortunately I have personally reviewed doctoral dissertations from some of these institutions that were poorly and ineffectually written or lacked substantive depth and breadth demonstrating critical thinking that is found in well written dissertations. This has led to the unfortunate situation where many individuals have probably been awarded the doctorate from online schools without the requisite competencies expected from a doctoral candidate. It does appear that some of these schools are tightening their criteria and this may lead to a higher level of receptivity of these degrees in the future.

 

Bing,

The research libraries and resources available to learners at Touro University are quite substantial, both online and at their brick and mortar campuses.

Here are a few of the online libraries available to TUI students at no additional cost:

*TUI Cyber Library (wide range of online library services, databases, and research and reference materials.
*eBrary,
*Net Library
*ProQuest (ABI/INFORM Complete)
*ProQuest Digital Dissertations (All dissertations – not just TUI’s)
*EBSCOweb (Professional Development Collection)
*JSTOR
*ACM Digital
*Science Direct
*ERIC
*PsycINFO
*CINAHL
*Britannica (full)
*OVID
*Touro College Libraries (http://www.touro.edu/library/libindex.asp)

The Touro Judaic library resources are very extensive and highly regarded by a number of large research schools. Touro's libraries are included in Princeton University’s Research Library Group.

Touro and its branch campuses/divisions also actively participate in the inter-library exchange program, which give students access to most major college and university libraries.

In addition to its online libraries, Touro also has at least 17 brick and mortar library facilities across 5 main campus locations and 27+ campus facilities.

Accordingly, I'm assuming that the library services at Touro and its branch campuses are significantly more substantial than what is offered at Northcentral, and likely many other online schools.

Likewise, Touro is substantially different than Northcentral in terms of its overall academics, framework and substance. In fact, Touro is far more comparable to Nova Southeastern than NCU or other purely online schools.

Profile and from online resources:

• Established in 1970 as non-profit private institution
• 5 main campuses (4 in the US and 1 in Israel)
- New York City (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island)
- Mares Island, California
- Cypress, California
- Henderson, Nevada
- Jerusalem, Israel
• 27 main sites across the campuses
• 17 libraries
• International offices in Israel and Moscow
• ABA accredited law school
• Medical School (one of 19 US post doctoral medical schools approved by the American Osteopathic Association)
• All Colleges: The Lander College of Liberal Arts and Sciences (Men's and Women's Divisions); The Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center; The Graduate School of Jewish Studies; The School of Health Sciences; The School of General Studies; The School of Lifelong Education; The International School of Business and Management; The Graduate School of Education and Psychology; The School of Career and Applied Studies; and Touro University (California). Touro University includes Touro University International, Touro University – California and Nevada, home of the Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine and College of Health Sciences.
• Approximately 18,000+ students (no data found on websites regarding number of international students)
• Approximately 900 to 1,000 faculty (the vast majority are full time faculty). No indication of total staff or administration personnel found.

I'm not certain about UMUC's programs and library resources; however, I would expect that they incorporate access to other state university system library resources. Perhaps DI readers have additional information related to what resources UMUC has to offer.

Tom

 

Thanks for the TUI comments. It sounds like the library system at TUI is very nice if one were looking to do a PhD program via distance learning.

 

Weclome to the NCU family I guess. I'd advise you to develop a thick skin, because some individuals on this message board have a habit of sometimes going to far and are overly critical of NCU and its yet to be established reputaion.

I can vouch that I have found NCU's coursework to be challenging and worthwhile. The dissertation process is well thought out and the resources available in the ELRC has been more than enough to complete my research (I'd still go to a collegiate library for extra sources). If anything I'd say that the dissertation process has been very challenging and I've leared a lot.

I wish you well and hope that you take advantage of NCU's resources to get your dissertation published.

Good Luck.

 

Just a note on cost saving.

If you are doing doctoral or post-doctoral research, and you cannot get access to a particular dissertation that you feel, from the abstract, may be of use to you in your research, you may consider sending an email to the scholar in question and politely requesting a copy (electronic or otherwise) to be sent to you for your research purposes. It helps considerably if you can state exactly why the research in question may be of strong interest to you.

Depending on how you do this, you may be able to save hundreds, or even thousands of dollars in research costs. It has been my experience that "the more recent the dissertation -- the more likely you will be sent a complimentary copy for research purposes" -- because many new doctorate holders wish to be cited -- and because they're rightfully proud and knowing that their research is being read gives them a great deal of satisfaction.

Of course, this works with some scholars, at least in the maths and computer science fields. Your mileage may vary. But as I say, it can save you a great deal of money, and is a perfectly acceptable practice. Universities and their scholars want their research results to be disseminated into the body of knowledge.

 

Re: Re: Re: The big answer between Touro and NCU

I have a question for you now. Whats your opinion on the dissertation quality between USNEWS Tier 1 and Tier 4 traditional universities?