Do I have a challenge for you...

I been trying to locate a bachelor or masters in legal studies or related field (excluding Criminal Justice) with the following caracteristics:

1. Properly accredited in the United States. Can be RA or NA. Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools prefered since transfer credits from these degrees are easier to transfer in Puerto Rico.
2. From an US institution.
3. That accepts lots of transfer credit. If posible, that it accepts 100% transfer credit toward degree completion.
4. As inexpensive as posible.
5. With few restrictions.
6. Preferably with no thesis or final project required.

So far the closest I found to what I am looking for is TESC Bachelor of Human Services in Legal Services.

Thanks for any help you might provide on this.

 

http://www.cup.edu/graduate/legal/index.jsp

 

I have enrolled in the Ashworth College Master of Criminal Justice. I hope that you will at least consider Ashworth. The tuition is very reasonabe.

 

I am seriously considering Charter Oak State College Bachelor of Arts in General Studies with a concentration in Individualized Studies. They already authorized the second bachelor. All I need is a degree that will preserve my legal education and that I feel confortable using in my resume.

Any thoughts?

 

miguelstefan,

You may not realize it, but you're asking for an awful lot. It's difficult to get precisely the combination of facotors you seek all in one degree. There are programs that are inexpensive, or that allow alot of transfer credit, or... etc.; but it's difficult to find one that is everything you seek. Just be aware of that.

If you want it at the masters level, the program that Bruce suggested is best-of-breed... though you may or may not yet realize it. His is more than just a casual suggestion, and I ask you to take it very, very seriously. I've researched this very thing rather at length, and I've found nothing quite like this program out there. Even attorneys -- and especially judges -- would be well-served to get this degree in addition to their JD. In my opinion, this masters could easily be obtained by an attorney instead of an LLM and I believe he'd probably get more out of it. Fortunately, the degree's also appropriate to non-attorneys... in fact, perhaps more so. It's quite good... possibly the hottest program of its type in the DL world. I'm not wild about it behing a cohort-type construct, I admit... but other than that, I'm about as impressed with it as I could possibly be. And I'm not easily impressed.

At the bachelors level, there are a tiny bit more options... but even those are quite limited. Legal studies degrees at the undergraduate level are sometimes little more than advanced vocational paralegal degrees, or are pretty much just criminal justice degrees that simply call themselves "legal studies" degrees... so you need to watch out for that. That said, here are at least a couple that spring to mind which I think are worth a look:

• Florida Gulf Coast University has a distance learning BS in Legal Studies (Regionally-accredited)
  
• University of Maryland University College has a BS in Legal Studies (Regionally accredited)

There are "Bachelor of Science in Law" (BSL) degrees via distance learning in the US, but be careful. Since the JD became the normative law degree for licensed attorneys, there is pretty much no longer an LLB or BSL in the US. Any legitimate BSL programs that are out there tend to be from the non-ABA-approved, but nevertheless California-bar-eligible distance learning (DL) law schools which award a BSL for completing the first two years of the four-year JD program. In other words, those who sign-up for the four-year DL JD program can opt to be awarded the BSL after completing half of the JD studies, so that when s/he finally graduates, s/he's got a DL BSL (which that, and $3.75'll getcha' a cup-o-coffee), plus a DL JD (which that, and passing the California bar'll getcha' a California law license and bar card). These BSL's from legit California DL law schools are unaccredited in every sense of the word; and would normally be something of a joke were they not part (i.e., the first half of) a DL JD program. If one gets such a California-bar-eligible DL JD, and then passes the bar and gets a bar card, the BSL gotten along the way isn't quite so laughable as it would be if the BSL, alone, were acquired.

Finally, beware of BSL degrees (or any degree, for that matter) from bona fide diploma mills, such as the BSL from the godforsaken Belford University; or the BSL from the unbelievably bad Canyon College... either of which, I've noticed, seem to have the power to easily deceive people... that is, if the number of them who come here and ask about them from time to time is any indicator. Neither of them, trust me, is worth the powder it would take to blow them up. Stay away from them, at all costs!

Hope that helps!

 

CUP's MLS

DesElms is right. I am currently enrolled in CUP's Master of Legal Studies program and I'm finding it absolutely wonderful, exceptionally challenging, and thoroughly interesting. I'm still amazed that I had not considered this program before. It's far more interesting and, in my opinion, relevant than was my first year in law school.

 

Re: Re: Do I have a challenge for you...

I'm not sure how hard CUP holds people to the cohort model, since one of the main selling points of the program seems to be that you can complete the degree at your own pace.

I tend to think that CUP starts people in a cohort model, but the cohort will inevitably fracture, since there will probably be many people looking to take one course at a time, while some dolts like me will be looking to take three graduate courses per term.

 

West Virginia University is supposed to be launching an online Master of Legal Studies in January 2006. They currently have a legal studies program that is offered "off-campus", not "online". I have no other details on the status of the online version of this program other than the following link:

http://www.elearn.wvu.edu/News/Legal_Studies.html



This is from the WVU Catalog: [PDF] http://coursecatalog.wvu.edu/graduatepdf/as.pdf

---Admission---
Admission as a degree-seeking graduate student at West Virginia University requires completion of a baccalaureate degree with a
cumulative GPA of at least 2.75 on a 4.0 scale. If your undergraduate GPA is below 2.75, or you have not yet applied for admission to the master of legal studies degree program, you may
be admitted to WVU as a non-degree student so that you may register for classes. Acceptance as a non-degree student does not guarantee acceptance into the Legal Studies Program. ...

... Application for acceptance into the master of legal studies degree program is separate from application for admission to West Virginia University; however, you may initiate both
applications at the same time.

... Students with any undergraduate major may be
admitted. The Admissions Committee considers several relevant factors in making its admissions decisions: undergraduate GPA, standardized test scores, graduate educational
experience, professional experience, letters of recommendation, and a personal statement on the subject of why and how the master of legal studies degree program will further the
applicant’s career or special interests. Results of any of the standardized graduate-level tests (i.e., LSAT, GRE, GMAT, or MCAT) will be accepted.

An applicant may petition for waiver of the test requirement if he or she has extensive graduate education or professional work
experience. You may request provisional admission to the M.L.S. program if your undergraduate GPA is below 2.75 but special considerations (e.g., subsequent professional
experience, maturity) apply.

---Curriculum---
The Legal Studies Program requires 36 hours of coursework, including six core courses (18 hours), elective courses (15 hours), and an applied research capstone project (three hours). We recommend that Law and the Legal System and Researching the Law courses be taken at the beginning of the program.

---Required Courses---
Law and the Legal System
Researching the Law
Alternative Dispute Resolution
The Administrative Legal Process
Law and Society
The Legislative Process
M.L.S. Research Capstone

---Elective Courses---
Commerce and the Law
Constitutional Law
Criminal Law and Procedure
Employment Law
Family Law
Healthcare Law
Media and the Law
Finance and Law
Legal Studies Internship

 

I said it was a challenge. Thanks for all the advise, all of You been extremelly helpful.

Maybe your wife can try the University of London at www.lon.ac.uk/external. Their LLB is bar qualifying in several states.

 

Darn, I do not envy your situation one bit. However, Law School is one of the most emtionally draining, time consuming, and hardest academic and profesional undertakings one can engage in. Are there any Non-ABA resident law schools in your state? Maybe that is the way to go.

Best of luck.

 

Well, there's Deakin's LLB. DETC-accredited, too.

And I wouldn't give-up on the UK so quickly, either. Northumbria has an odd little LLB program specifically geared toward Americans; which isn't nearly so off-putting in the ways I think you mean by your use of the word "hazing"; and which, allegedly, qualifies one to sit for the NY state bar exam... click here to learn about it.

And I've always liked one of Northumbria's LLM programs because it doesn't force one to study taxation or maritime law or something in which one would normally never be interested, but in which one tends to force an interest just so one can get an LLM. The Northumbria LLM I'm talking about is in advanced legal studies; is, I believe, 100% research, with a final thesis paper; and one can pretty much work-out with the university what one's study area will be. Back in 2003 it cost considerably less than what it costs now... but even now it's affordable. I sometimes wish Nosborne48 had gone for that one instead of the London external program that's been so vexing for him. Click here to learn about it.

Some states allow one to obtain a JD without having first obtained a bachelors; and some ABA-approved law schools will admit studends to their JD program without having a bachelors first. Such cases are quite rare, though; and both the situation and the student must be exceptional. It's so rare and difficult that no one should ever count on it happening. And none of these would be distance learning programs in any case.

There are non-ABA-approved, but nevertheless state-approved, law schools in states like Tennessee and Massachusetts which may or may not allow one to be admitted to their JD programs without first having a bachelors. These are not DL schools, though; and you can pretty much only sit for the bar exam in the states where the schools are located. I say "pretty much" because, as I recall, either Vermont or New Hampshire will allow JD grads from one of the Massachusetts non-ABA-approved schools to sit for its bar. But again, we're not talking DL, here, in any case.

If you're talking about distance learning (DL), I can tell you, categorically, that there is no distance learning, bar-qualifying law school in US any state other than California. California allows those who graduate with JD degrees from such DL law schools to take the California bar exam and, if passed, to become a member of the California bar and practice law.

There are about a dozen DL law schools there, two of them DETC-accredited. Most of them will admit students to their DJ programs without having a bachelors first. CalBar rules specify that anyone may be admitted to the DL law schools who has either 60 hours of transferrable (meaning accredited -- usually regionally-accredited) undergraduate credits; or an associates degree from an accredited school (but not an associate of applied science degree, because it typically doesn't have sufficient general educational coursework); or who has passed certain CLEP exams which CalBar specifies. The BSL degrees that some of the California DL law schools offer were kinda' sorta' created for the benefit of those who enter the JD program with no bachelors degree. The BSL that one gets on the way to a DL JD at least allows the graduate to put a bachelors degree on his/her resume... even if it's unaccredited. The rationale is that since the JD is really what matters; and since, accredited or not, the possession of the bar card pretty much trumps all, the unaccredited BSL is probably inconsequential in the larger scheme of things and mostly just looks good on the resume so that people, when viewing siad resume, won't ask something like, "So... wait a minute... where's the guy's bachelors degree?"

Once a California DL JD-holder is a member of the California bar, even if one hasn't practiced a single day in California, one can go to Wisconsin and sit for its bar exam and, if passed, begin practicing there. I'm unaware of any other state that will allow such a thing.

In twenty-something other states, once a California DL JD-holder has practiced in California for five years or so (depending on the state in question), one can go sit for the bar exam in said state. That means that twenty-something other states will never let a California DL JD-holder sit for their bar exams... though some of them might allow a California DL JD-holder to be admitted on motion if they have alot of really impressive experience... and maybe know somebody in said state who can kinda' help 'em get in. It ain't pretty, I'll tell ya'!

As we learned in another thread, one can do a variety of limited federal practices in all fifty states with a California DL JD... but you'd never catch me doing so unless I were admitted to the bar in California and were headquartered there. But that's just me.

It seems conceivable to me that some states which allow "reading" one's way into the practice of law (i.e., that will allow one to self-study while simultaneously apprenticing in a law office or for a judge for four years or so) might, I suppose, on motion, consider a California DL JD program to be a pretty good way of doing the "reading" part... and I've always thought that it would be interesting to try it that way in some of those states to see if it would work... but now we're getting into among the truly weirder ways of getting into the practice of law.

There's no easy way to do what your wife wants to do, Steve. If she's not near a U.S. law school that will admit her; and if, therefore, she must do this by DL, then it's going to be a real challenge practicing anywhere other than California at first... and even then, only if she graduates from one of the dozen or so CalBar-registered DL JD programs. Even an LLB from another country like the UK or Australia probably won't do it in most states. I'm actually surprised that Northumbria's LLB will qualify its graduates to sit for the New York state bar exam... and I'm not entirely sure it's true (and don't have the will to go look it up).

Some states will, allegedly, allow LLM-holders to sit for their bar exams... but the ABA has expressly stated that this should never be allowed. I tend to agree. No LLM that I'm aware of comes even close to teaching the basics of law that one needs to sit for virtually any state's bar exam.

I dunno if any of that really answered your questions... but I tried.

 

Those words make it sound like you're goin' for the CUP program. Are you?


Oh... by the way... there are three other programs -- all of them DETC-accredited -- that I forgot to mention, but which may be of use to Steve or miguelstefan (or both):

• Australia's Monash University Law School offers its Bachelor of Laws degrees. They say in one place on the horrible-to-navigate site that they're completely residential; but then in other places it's not so clear that that's the case... so it's worth inquiring about it, it seems to me.
  
• Australia's University of New England (UNE) offers several law and legal studies programs. Its web site is also difficult to navigate and easily get from it the information one needs, so it's not completely clear which programs and/or courses are available via distance learning since its site, too, contradicts itself in various places. So, it's probably worth inquiring about as well.
  
  CAUTION: There is a member here (whom I will not name because it's his job, and not mine, to go public with this information only if he wants to) whom I happen to know had a horrific experience with UNE wherein he submitted a doctoral proposal and it ended-up being rejected; but then he later discovered that it had been passed-on to some other (obviously-preferred) UNE student who then up and ran with it. This, of course, is the epitome of unethical; and I would have gone after the professor who was responsible until he was fired... but that's just me. It may or may not be fair to characterize the entire UNE based on the act of that one prof, on that one occasion, but he obviously felt he could get away with it... so it seems fair to at least consider reading something bad into that, if one wishes. Just a word to the wise.
  
• I have always been a huge fan of the great books (see also here) and degrees based thereupon. The College of the Humanities and Sciences, in Tempe AZ, has a truly amazing Master of Arts in Jurisprudence degree that should not be overlooked when considering legal studies programs. It's a real honey... and it's my #2 choice at the masters level, right behind the CUP program (though, as more of a philosphy degree, it's not really the same kind of program as the CUP masters; nor does it have the same sort of utility). (The CUP masters is also regionally-accredited, where this one is nationally-accredited... for what that's worth.)

Hope that, too, helps.

 

Re: Re: Do I have a challenge for you...

The crack about taking three graduate courses at once was actually referring to my time at UMass-Lowell, where I had to take three per term to meet an inflexible deadline, that would have cost me thousands if I didn't make it. I would NEVER do that again, voluntarily.

However, I do have to admit I like the CUP program. I like it a lot.

 

Thanks so much for all the wonderful advise. I just puchased Bears' Guide to College Degrees by Mail & Internet: 100 Accredited Schools That Offer Bachelor'S, Master'S, Doctorates, and Law Degrees by Distance Learning from e-bay and I am going to take a look at it before commiting to a program. However, the M.S. in Legal Studies from CUP sounds like a perfect fit.

 

First let me say that I apologize for bring up this thread again. However, I would like to modify the above requirement to include properly state approved, authorized, and/or licensed schools. I am particulary interested in schools outside the State of California. The rest of the challenge remains the same. Any sugestions?