Law vs. Practice - CPA and DETC in Pennsylvania

I'm going to be entering a masters program shortly and need it to qualify for the educational requirements of CPA licensure. I would like to attend a DETC program because they fit my budget and learning preference (self paced) better. Here is a copy of the state law regarding acceptable education:

Here is the problem: I contacted the agency responsible for evaluating the educational requirements (NASBA) and was told the Pennsylvania Board of Accountancy would only accept regionally accredited schools. The way I see it, DETC schools are equally "approved" under either State or Federal Departments of Education (I have not found anything on the PA Dept. of Education web site indicating otherwise), thus they have no legal grounds for excluding national accreditation. I tried emailing the Board of Accountancy (there is no telephone number). It's been three weeks now, and it looks like they are ignoring me.

Any advice? Should I force the issue? How would I go about doing it? Or just bite the bullet and go RA?

Thanks.

 

First question: Approved by the Department of Education as in US or PA? DETC is recognized by the USDOE and CHEA. But you might find out whether DETC degrees meet with the approval of the PA DOE.

Second question: Have you called the Pennsylvania Board of Accountancy or are you just taking the National Association of State Boards of Accountancy's word for it?

 

Re: Re: Law vs. Practice - CPA and DETC in Pennsylvania

Well, see thats one of the problems. That is actual text of the law right there. It does not specify federal or state.

NASBA told me to contact the Pennsylvania Board of Accountancy. Like it says in my original post, the PA Board does not have a phone number (their web site lists one, but when you call it, they just tell you to email). I have emailed with no response in almost a month. I have emailed questions to them before - and the maximum response time was two weeks - so I'm assuming they have chosen to ignore me. My last option is sending a letter, and I wanted to get some advice before going there.

Thanks.

 

Oh, and I did find a list of approved degree granting institutions on the PA DOE's web site - but it only lists schools in PA and no reason for why a school might be approved. There is a DETC school on the list.

 

Re: Re: Re: Law vs. Practice - CPA and DETC in Pennsylvania

Any state law that refers to a department, and which does not specifically indicate that said department is a federal department, is always referring to the state's department. The statute you're quoting almost certainly refers to the Pennsylvania Department of Education; however, the definitions portion of the statute may actually define the term "Department of Education" differently. Without seeing the entire statute (or rule, if that's what it is), no one here can possibly figure this out for you in any reasonably reliable manner.

Which isn't the same as saying that DETC-accredited schools are equally "approved" under either the state or federal departments of education. In the first place, a state statute would never presume to say what's approved by the federal (U.S.) Department of Education. It is, therefore, almost certainly talking only about the PA DOE. Just because the statute or rule (or the PA DOE web site, generally) doesn't say that DETC-accredited schools aren't disapproved doesn't mean, conversely, that they're approved. Laws and rules aren't written that way.

Sorry... close, but no cigar. That's almost certainly not the case. Any state can restrict what it will and/or will not accept (as long as it can show a good faith reason for doing so) as much or as little as it wants. And let me give you a little friendly advice: When you're talking to bureaucrats, their eyes glaze over and, for them, you cease to exist when you start using language like "no legal grounds."

I would have to go research the entire situation to speak to it with any degree of authority, but the language you quoted basically says that whatever is the degree, it must be from an institution approved by the Pennsylvania Department of Education, which certainly has the right to specify what schools it does and does not find acceptable. Period. End of discussion. "Legal grounds," in this case, ain't got nuttin' ta' do widt it! [grin]

Then that's it. That's your list. Simple as that.

But that doesn't mean that the reasons -- or, more accurately, the approval criteria -- is not codified. It just means you haven't found it yet. And in said code is probably not only the language that explains why one Pennsylvania school would be on the list and another would not; but therein, probably also, is language explaining how a non-Pennsylvania school could qualify (after all, it's exceedingly unlikely that PA only lets graduates of PA schools become CPAs). You need to find that language... and I can virtually guarantee you that it says something like that any PA DOE-approved school is acceptable; and if the school is not on the PA DOE list of accepted schools, then the school must simply be regionally accredited -- or something to that effect -- which is probably where whomever you called got the regionally-accredited thing.

If there's a DETC-accredited school on the PA DOE's list of approved schools, logic might dictate that if PA DOE would approved an in-state NA school, then an out-of-state NA school would be acceptable, too. But PA DOE can't control an out-of-state NA school like it can an in-state one... which may be why the PA DOE-controlled and DETC-accredited school is on the PA DOE list of approved schools, but no out-of-state DETC accredited school could be approved pursuant top the rules of approval of out-of-state schools.

There's nothing weird or unusual about this. PA DOE knows and understands its own schools and, therefore, might be willing to approve an NA one that it would not feel sufficiently comfortable to approve were it not familiar and under its control. To keep from having to assess the out-of-state school as it can somewhat more easily do to the in-state school, PA DOE just takes the safe route of only accepting a school if it's RA. Makes complete sense to me. PA DOE can't afford to get into the business of assessing out-of-state schools; its hands are full just keeping-up with schools within its borders. So, trusting the RA standard as at the very least equal to its own; and not really trusting the NA standard as much, PA DOE just makes it easy on itself and says that if you're gonna' bring a degree in from outside the state, then it's gotta' be RA so we don't have to do any work assessing it. Which is its right.

Assuming all of my conjecture, above, is pretty much the way things are, then you need to just go out and get either a masters from one of the PA DOE-approved schools; or get at the very least an RA masters that meets the criteria set forth in that which you quoted.

But, of course, we cannot assume that my conjecture, above, is pretty much the way things are. You need to both see the code and/or rules upon which everyone at the accountancy board, and the department of education, relies in order to determine what they'll accept. Believe me, these people are not just making it up as they go along. Just because you can't find it written down anywhere, or get anyone to reply to your emails, or answer the phone, does not mean you should just proceed on assumptions.

You need to get the correct information; and you need it both explained to you on the phone; and you need to see hard copies, in writing. The hardcopy part should all be accessible from the various appropriate web sites, but sometimes it's not. If not, then you need to not take the recording at the number you did call for an answer. You need to be assertive and not let these bureaucrats jerk you around. If one number doesn't work, then bygod find one that does. If one state employee doesn't know the answers, then bygod find one that does. If the web site does not contain the statutory or rules language you need to see, then bygod find the web site that does.

DegreeInfo is not the place to get the answers you need. Once you know -- and you know you're correct about -- precisely what kind of school's degree (as well as what type of degree there) would be acceptable, then and only then should you probably come to a place like this and ask where and how you can find such a degree for a reasonable price.

I'm not saying you've screwed-up to come here and ask these questions. You were absolutely right to come here and do precisely as you have done. After all, you're getting this advice here, aren't you? [grin]

My point is, people around here can only help so much. Once things start getting into the arcane details of a given state's requirements, you really need to go figure out that kinda' stuff yourself; and then come back here and ask how you can find the degree that your state says you need.

Set aside an entire morning -- preferably not a Monday or Friday morning -- to get on the phone and bygod get to the bottom of this. Most state governments have a main information number. Start there. Explain to the operator that the number on the web site just says to email and that that's ridiculous. Point out that you know that that department has employees who are actually sitting at desks somewhere in the state capital, and bygod you're gonna' talk to 'em if you have to get in your car and drive there and march straight through the metal detectors and right into their offices. Be that way about both the US DOE and the accountancy department. Make people tell you who the most knowledgeable people are, where they are, what their extensions are, and when they'll be at their desks to take your call. Find out where you can get your hands on the statutory and rules language, too... whether it's on the web, or by fax, or if you have to give 'em your credit card number to have 'em send you some loose or bound papers, booklets or books... whatever!

But, no matter what: Stop guessing or assuming or wondering or asking around here. Find out precisely what the state requires of you for you to become a CPA -- and I mean precisely. Then come back here and start asking where you can find the degree your state will accept, via DL, and for the best price. I'll bet this place can help you then!