Graduate Theoloical Foundation

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Robert, Sep 17, 2005.

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  1. Robert

    Robert New Member

    I have done a search on GTF and found only a few things written. What do you folks think of this school. Is it legit?

    Thanks
    Robert
     
  2. Robert

    Robert New Member

    I mean Theological.
     
  3. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Why, Robert, are you thinking of pursuing a graduate theological education?

    If so, as a senior member of this forum, it's about time you learned some graduate-level research skills.

    So be a good boy and do the same search here on degreeinfo.com . . . The results should keep you sufficiently busy that you won't ask a question again that has been answered here countless times.

    (Well, they can be counted, but you get the point. I hope.) :D
     
  4. boydston

    boydston New Member

    There have been pretty extensive discussions about GTF -- unfortunately they are mostly located on the parts of the server that seem to be locked-up tight.

    You might try looking here..
     
  5. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Oy. :rolleyes: Steve Levicoff... one of the few persons -- perhaps the only person -- around here who's arguably a bigger jerk than am I... or at least can be, when he wants to be. That said, Robert, most of the time -- especially when he's feeling a bit more charitable and helpful than he appears to be here -- he's actually amazingly knowledgeable about DL, has even published some excellent books about it, and is generally someone whose opinion should not be ignored.

    Sadly, this is not one of those times.

    The SEARCH function, here, is broken. This place got a new server a few months ago, and ever since then the SEARCH function has not worked right. So Steve's recommendation, if you executed it, wouldn't really help you as much as we'd all like.

    Let me see if I can help you...

    First, you need to know that Levicoff considers GTF a diploma mill. No amount of information that anyone provides him will change his mind about it or cause him to lift his knee up off its chest. And he wrote about it -- rather negatively -- in one of his books.

    The thing is, though, Levicoff's not completely off-base about GTF. He goes too far, in my opinion, but the points he raises about its past are valid ones. It would be a good idea for you to read some of the previous posts where this sort of thing is discussed around here. You can't find most of them through the broken SEARCH feature, but I can -- and will -- link you to alot of them right here.

    But before you read them, consider my position on GTF. I'm as anti-diploma-mill as is Levicoff any day of the week. A quick search on my posts here will easily reveal that. But I disagree that GTF's a mill. It's unaccredited, but, trust me, it's legit.

    That said, it's got a history of doing stupid things that are a huge part of the reason the Levicoff and others who more or less agree with him (that GTF's a mill) have anything negative about GTF to point at. And GTF has really done some silly stuff. If it weren't for the independent research I've done into GTF, and the people who have important teaching positions at regionally-accredited and ATS-accredited seminaries and have all manner of other important positions in academia, then I'd probably be pretty negative about GTF, based on its past silliness, too.

    If you're going to end-up thinking that GTF is credible, then you're going to have to work at it around here. There have been alot of negative things said about it... and, again, alot of it's valid because GTF did some really dumb stuff in the past. It's not doing it any longer, and the guy who runs it now understands how it was perceived by the rest of the world, and won't be that dumb again. But Levicoff, et al, won't forgive.

    In my opinion, the best thread around here on which to kinda' cut your teeth on this subject is one I started around here a few months ago, and in which I listed as many names of as many GTF graduates as I could easily find on the web who had impressive positions at accredited institutions, even though their GTF degrees were not accredited. The reason I think that's a good thread to begin with is because I also link to some of the posts around here where some of the worst things about GTF have been said. So, by starting in my thread to which I'm about to link you, you can get up-to-speed but fast on GTF.

    There's another thread that's much more recent where we argued about GTF, but to be honest with you, I now regret the direction that thread took -- and my harsh words there toward Dr. Levicoff -- and it wouldn't bother me a bit if you never even saw that one (though if you just look for it, you'll find it easily enough).

    Personally, I like GTF. But I'm in the minority around here. I'm troubled by its past silliness a little, of course... but I like it overall. Even though it is not, itself, accredited, it will allow/accept toward one of its degrees only regionally-accredited coursework; or, at the very least, coursework that's nationally accredited, or accredited by one of the specialty accreditors... either of which type of accreditors must be approved by the US Department of Education (USDE) and/or its Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). The requirements are rigorous, just as you'd expect from a credible institution. But the approach, generally, is kinda' different. In essence, you sign-up for a degree, and then you go to South Bend, Indiana to meet with GTF and work-out a gameplan for your degree. You agree what courses you're gonna' take and from where; what kind of paper, papers, thesis or dissertation, as appropriate you're gonna' write, how long, and supervised by whom; and then you pay 'em a flat fee for the degree and go out and begin it. Of course you also have to pay for the coursework, wherever you end-up taking it; and I think they make you attend commencement when you're finally done... that is, unless you've got a darned good reason not to.

    When you're finished, you've got a completely unaccredited degree, made-up of completely accredited coursework plus whatever paper/papers (or a thesis, or a dissertation, as appropriate) you wrote. And you get a nice diploma, and transcripts and all that kinda' stuff.

    One would think, based on what we all always say around here about the utility of unaccredited degrees, that that wouldn't do it. But I'll be darned if GTF graduates haven't gone on to regionally-accredited and ATS-accredited institutions that, according to what everyone says around here, usually wouldn't even consider an unaccredited degree. It's a mystery.

    Maybe it's because GTF has been around so long; maybe its GTF's credible connections in the Catholic church... I dunno. All I know is that for an unaccredited institution that offers degrees in the sort of "consultative" manner that it does, it sure seems to have credibiility among seminaries, theology & divinity schools, and even secular schools. Again, it's a mystery.

    To begin learning about it, go to the thread I'm about to link you to, and read. When, within that thread, you are linked to other threads around here, be sure to click on them and read them. Therein you'll find all of Levicoff's and many others' complaints about GTF. Take those complaints seriously... but know that virtually none of them are true about GTF anymore. But GTF's detractors argue -- and validly, I think -- that GTF shouldn't have been so stupid to begin with; and that if it once did silly things, and if the same people who did said silly things are still running it, then maybe GTF can't really be trusted. I don't know if they're right or not. I, personally, trust it. Many here do not.

    You're going to have to read all the negatives and positives and decide for yourself. Begin here:Hope that helps!
     

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