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  1. #1
    intsvc is offline member
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    In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    I fully defend the honest use of LE and PK qualifications.

    I have worked in IT jobs for almost 20 years and started are very poor pay.

    Although my pay has increased, my hours are very long and (as those in the same profession will know) are not conjusive to 'traditional' hours and days of study, going back over the same stuff already learned in the university of life.

    My co-workers all say I have an extreme high level of knowledge, practical experience and hands-on regarding IT and am definately
    graduate material. However, I've never had the time or full money to afford to go back to school the traditional way.

    Using my considerable LE and references / previous certificates for PK, I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT
    undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT. These have been put to excellent use in my new jobs and have the added benefits of better pay and a better lifestyle for my family.
    Last edited by intsvc; 09-10-2005 at 12:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Gregory Gulick, DO is offline Registered User
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    I smell a troll. Ignore this thread.

    Definition of a troll.

  3. #3
    PhD2B is offline Dazed and Confused
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    Originally posted by Gregory Gulick, DO
    I smell a troll. Ignore this thread.

    Definition of a troll.
    Good call.

    The following Web site lists all of the troll species and their characteristics. :D

    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...troglodyte.htm
    BS, Mathematics – Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP)
    MS, Operations Research – Florida Institute of Technology (FIT)
    MS, Information Systems – Dakota State University (DSU)

  4. #4
    PJFrench is offline member
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    Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Originally posted by intsvc
    I fully defend the honest use of LE and PK qualifications.

    ...

    Using my considerable LE and references / previous certificates for PK, I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT
    undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT. These have been put to excellent use in my new jobs and have the added benefits of better pay and a better lifestyle for my family.
    Degrees from where?

  5. #5
    PhD2B is offline Dazed and Confused
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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Originally posted by PJFrench


    Degrees from where?
    Please do not feed the troll. :D
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    BS, Mathematics – Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP)
    MS, Operations Research – Florida Institute of Technology (FIT)
    MS, Information Systems – Dakota State University (DSU)

  6. #6
    scubasteveiu is offline Registered User
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    "I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT"

    What school? Legal and valid? ... I don't see accredited in there!?

    I think it is great you have been able to squeeze some value from a LE / PK degree. I do question having all three (it appears) earned degrees from the same method. I also find it hard to believe in your 20 years of "IT" work you covered enough to knock out the equivalent of a (for example) BS, MS and PhD.

    I have worked in IT jobs for almost 20 years and started are very poor pay.

    So!? Pay has very little to do with it, if anything.

    My co-workers all say I have an extreme high level of knowledge, practical experience and hands-on regarding IT and am definitely graduate material.

    It is nice your co-workers think highly of you and feel you are knowledgeable. I, however, would not use my co-workers as some form of graduate litmus test. It just doesn't work that way.

    These have been put to excellent use in my new jobs and have the added benefits of better pay and a better lifestyle for my family.

    I know many people in IT without degrees holding well paying jobs. It is my assumption your progression is a result of your knowledge, not the degrees.

    Please to not take this posting as a jab at you, your education or your career. It seems everything is working well for you and you are able to provide for your family, I applaud you. This is just a hunch, but I am guessing you could have knocked out (and accomplished) your degrees in a more rigorous and accepted fashion…. If you really wanted to.

    -Steve

  7. #7
    Gregory Gulick, DO is offline Registered User
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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Originally posted by PJFrench


    Degrees from where?
    Step away from the troll... slowly... slowly... Now, keep your hands at home position while browsing this forum. :p

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  9. #8
    KKA
    KKA is offline Registered User
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    Not feeding the troll...

    But, honestly, isn't there room (in real education ) for prior learning and life experience --even up to the level of acquiring an undergraduate degree or even a postgraduate qualification? In a way doesn't happen already (on smaller scale through portfolios and the like at the Big Three ) or even in the UK when university regulations may allow for some other background substitute in stead of an honours degree to be admitted to masteral or doctoral program?

    There is no room for illegitmate shortcuts in acquiring a real education , but in today's world a degree is not just about acquiring an education and contributing to knowledge, rather, also, degrees are about certifiying certain levels of acquired learning and potential capacities. From that perspective, there should be a real place for life experience and prior knowledge. Just an opinion.

    Kenneth

  10. #9
    BillDayson is offline Registered User
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    Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Originally posted by intsvc
    I fully defend the honest use of LE and PK qualifications.
    The important word there is "honest".

    I strongly support prior learning assessments, but only if the assessments are sound and credible.

    Trying to pass a purchased "degree" that was obtained on the basis of litle more than a sense of personal entitlement is dishonest.

    But if a student actually demonstrates mastery of the degree syllabus through things like passing challenge exams and presenting portfolios of prior work, then I think that's honest and fine.

    The problem at that point is determining the credibility of the assessment process. How are outsiders who don't personally know the graduate and who aren't familiar with the (purported) university that granted the degree supposed to know whether sound and credible assessments took place, whether some kind of insufficient and unsound assessment process took place, or whether degrees are simply being sold?

    Accreditation is one, albeit imperfect, means to get a handle on that question.

    My co-workers all say I have an extreme high level of knowledge, practical experience and hands-on regarding IT and am definitely graduate material.
    In other words, you have a sense of entitlement. Well, everybody else does too. So how are strangers supposed to determine who really does know his stuff and who doesn't?

    Buying fake, meaningless or unreliable degrees doesn't really answer the question, though it might trick a few uncritical people into thinking that it's been answered.

    And that's dishonest by its very nature. It makes you into a con-man.
    Last edited by BillDayson; 09-10-2005 at 08:10 AM.

  11. #10
    Kirkland is offline Registered User
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    Re: Not feeding the troll...

    Originally posted by KKA
    But, honestly, isn't there room (in real education) for prior learning and life experience--even up to the level of acquiring an undergraduate degree or even a postgraduate qualification? ...
    Not unless one can demonstrate through testing or other approved means that they have sufficient knowledge that meets the standards required for conferring a legitimate degree. This is usually prefaced by coursework and practicums but can be attained through experience. Life experience is very difficult to assess reliably on its own as an academic credential unless you're a Steven Speilberg who was given a waiver for his short film project.

  12. #11
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    If the education business were all about seeing to it that people who know something get a piece of paper saying they know it, you'd be right. But I s'pect that the education business is all about seeing to it that the educational business get the most amount of money as possible out of the students.
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  13. #12
    tesch is offline Registered User
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    Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Originally posted by intsvc
    I fully defend the honest use of LE and PK qualifications.

    I have worked in IT jobs for almost 20 years and started are very poor pay.

    Although my pay has increased, my hours are very long and (as those in the same profession will know) are not conjusive to 'traditional' hours and days of study, going back over the same stuff already learned in the university of life.

    My co-workers all say I have an extreme high level of knowledge, practical experience and hands-on regarding IT and am definately
    graduate material. However, I've never had the time or full money to afford to go back to school the traditional way.

    Using my considerable LE and references / previous certificates for PK, I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT
    undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT. These have been put to excellent use in my new jobs and have the added benefits of better pay and a better lifestyle for my family.
    Unfortunately, I am not aware of a legitimate or credible school that will offer a legitimate, credible, valid or “real” masters or doctoral degree based on life experience , references and industry/manufacturer certifications. One may indeed be well recognized and respected by peers for his or her technical IT skills, but that does not qualify them for a graduate or doctoral degree.

    What you appear to have is simply a “bought” degree. From your message, it also seems possible that your employer believes (deceived into thinking) that you have earned a legitimate degree; it is not that difficult to do, just say nothing. Alternatively, you may have fully informed your employer that your degree was not earned, that your degree is not recognized or accepted by any legitimate school of higher education , and that your degree is not accredited by any accrediting organization recognized by the department of education . If that latter is the case, I would venture to think that your experience, IT certifications and references were viewed as important by your employer; not your degree.

    Indeed, there is no substitute for hands-on and practical experience. However, there is also no substitute for the experience and knowledge gained through the process of earning a legitimate degree – especially one that is earned at the graduate or doctoral level. I tend to think that hands-on experience and industry certifications develop specific skills and make people aware of what they need to know surrounding specific tasks or jobs, while “real” and earned degrees (especially graduate/doctoral) build additional breadth of knowledge as a whole and help one to better understand and illuminate both what they do and don’t know. My point is that from your message it seems “you may not know what you really don’t know” about a graduate or doctoral education , which is a little sad.

    Presenting one’s life experience and prior knowledge is one thing, but trying to legitimize the same by way of a bogus or questionable degree simply diminishes the value and credibility of such experience and knowledge -- at least if the true nature and legitimacy of such a degree is represented honestly to employers and others.

    If an employee does not “fully inform” an employer as to the true nature, acceptability and credibility of an “acquired” degree, and compels or allows an employer to pay additional because they believe the employee has earned a “real” (legitimate, fully recognized and properly accredited) degree, then I would argue that a deception and fraud has occurred. There is no defense for such action, regardless of how one feels about their life experience , prior knowledge or skills.

    Can you tell us from what school you acquired your degrees?

    Tom
    BS Business Management
    MBA
    MS Project Management
    PhD Business Administration
    PMP

  14. #13
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    intsvc:
    "I have been able to obtain legal ..."

    From where as was asked and how was credit obtained?

  15. #14
    Lauradglas is offline Registered User
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    I like to know that a college graduate, while not the greatest speller, has the ability and knowledge to use the "spell check" option, particularly if he's an IT guy. But hey, that's just me.

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  17. #15
    Jack Tracey is offline Registered User
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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Originally posted by tesch

    Can you tell us from what school you acquired your degrees?
    Well, according to his first post on this forum (03/11/05) our fellow member has earned a BSc from the Open University (UK). It seemed like his intention was to stay the course at OU and earn a Masters and a Doctorate. However, based on his first post in this thread, it seems that Mr. intsvc has opted for the smarmy shortcut...

    "Using my considerable LE and references/previous certifications for PK, I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT."

    So in the next five months he "earned" two grad degrees, one of them a PhD. In short, he went the mill route. Now he seeks to justify the decision. He won't even give out the name of his "university" because he knows that if he did it would be the kiss of death to his argument. Of course, having briefly reviewed his short posting history , and having noted his defense of Universal Life Church degrees and James Monroe University degrees I will invite other members to make a guess as to the school name on his diploma(s).
    LOL
    Jack

  18. #16
    DesElms is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Gregory Gulick, DO
    I smell a troll. Ignore this thread.

    Definition of a troll.
    Hey... for a newbie, Gulick really gets it! I love this guy! ;)
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