"prestige" of National University

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by MS_Blanc, Sep 9, 2005.

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  1. MS_Blanc

    MS_Blanc New Member

    Ok, ok, I know I shouldn't obsess over how "prestigious" a university is or is not --but I am curious nonetheless.

    I'm sure that National University is not top-tier, but is it well-regarded by other universities?
     
  2. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    National University is a respectable institution in California that has been around for quite a while. National was one of the early pioneers (along with Nova and U of Phoenix) of distributed education via local brick & mortar centers and, later, distance learning. Some years back, National suffered some severe PR damage when it grew too fast for its administrative and financial structure and was in danger of losing its accreditation. New leadership turned the school around and has built its credibility. Unfortunately, some folks have long memories and judge National, not by its current status and accomplishments, but by a certain point in its history.

    I have had many colleagues with degrees from National. they have been successful and well served by their education. There are also some National alums that frequent Degreeinfo. Is National prestigious? Well, in Calfiornia, it certainly does not rank with Stanford and the University of California campuses, but it is a legitimate and useful degree for working adults (National's primary audience). US News & World Report's college rankings (a useful though very limited tool) tends to rank all non-traditional programs pretty low, so it is not surprising that National is listed as a "fourth tier" school.
     
  3. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    I don't mean this in a mean way, but can someone please explain to me what prestige means to them, personally? Does it mean that when you tell someone where you trained, they are immediately impressed?

    I remember when I was a premedical student that everyone I was studying with wanted to go to Yale, Harvard and Hopkins. I would ask them, "Why?" They would always respond, "Because they are good schools." And I would bug them again, "Yes, but why? Why is it the best school for you?" Then I would get an explanation about how it is a high ranked school according to US News and World Reports. Basically, they had very weak explanations.

    THEN they would ask me, "Okay, smartypants... where do you want to go?" I would reply, "I want to go to Nova Southeatern, it's an osteopathic medical school in South Florida. As you know I have an interest in geriatric medicine and it is one of the very few schools in the country that requires a mandatory geriatric medicine rotation during your clinical years. They also have a geriatric medicine course in their second year curriculum. Also, their curriculum is a systems based approach that I feel is best for my learning style. Furthermore, I have sat in on some of their classes and labs for the past two years and I was very impressed with their lecture style."

    I was never sold on "prestige" when I was an undergrad and now, 13 years later, I am even less sold on prestige. In my job I could care less where fellow physicians have trained. I'll know after working with them for 4-6 hours if they are any good. I have met physicians with dual doctoral degrees from "prestigous" institutions who can't diagnose their way out of a paper bag. Meanwhile, one of the brightest interns I've ever had the pleasure to teach was from the new osteopathic school at Touro (new school = no reputation).

    So I'd be interested in learning more about what prestige means to some of the members here. For me, I guess, I wanted accreditation and a program that suits me and that's it.

    Thoughts?
     
  4. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator

    To me, prestige simply means that a future employer has realistically heard of it and it doesn't give off a negative vibe. US News rankings generally aren't important.

    I follow the NCAA principle. If your school has a decent D-1 football or basketball program, people know of it. Beyond that, regionalism helps. An example is that Drury U. will likely have more prestige in Springfield, MO than it does in Williamsport, PA where Lycoming College is the local school.
     
  5. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    "...I know I shouldn't obsess over how "prestigious" a university is or is not..."

    It's an important analysis if you want the highest return for your educational dollar and time.

    There are two concepts here... prestige and recognition. Prestigious universities are well-known for their academics and contributions to human knowledge, art, science, sports, and economics. Prestigious are top-tier schools, not necessarily ranked according to US News but probably not far off. These tend to be household names. A lesser form of prestige is name recognition. Geography can be a factor in local or regional situations. Sometimes a school's industry focus, academic uniqueness, or history contributes to its recognition. National U. may have some history which gives it recognition within its region but I am not aware of any prestige.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2005
  6. Dr Rene

    Dr Rene Member

    I never cared about “prestige” or even “recognition” in selecting schools for my education. I would definitely not use the “NCAA” principle for selecting schools either—in fact that would be definite negative point for me.

    I picked my BBA school because it was a small decent school in west Texas—definitely not prestigious or even well-recognized throughout the state of Texas. However, the class sizes ranged from 30 students (freshman classes) to approx 20 students (senior classes) which made for very personalized classes. The profs knew us by first names, and we would frequently meet for coffee after class at the student union center to philosophize on all business and life-related issues. I still keep in contact with my BBA professors and visit them whenever I get back to west Texas. I also picked this school because of the ROTC program and the Air Force paid for my BBA.

    I picked my MBA school because it was AACSB accredited. Although it was the biggest school (I think) in the state and the most recognized (in that state), it is definitely not prestigious. The classes were very small (my largest class was 10 students; my smallest class was 2 students). I also picked this school because the Air Force paid for my MBA.

    I picked my DBA school because it was regionally accredited and the classes met in the evening and on week-ends, thus allowing part-time study. (All the other “prestigious” and “well-recognized” schools in the area wanted me to quit my job and go full-time so that I can do their teaching and various research projects for them, in addition to pursuing the doctorate program. With 18 years in the Air Force and just 2 more years to retire---no way!) My DBA school is definitely not prestigious or well-recognized, but I truly enjoyed the doctorate experience and was very challenged by the coursework and dissertation effort. My dissertation committee members are still my mentors and have helped me with my continuing research and getting my completed dissertation converted into my first published (co-authored) textbook. I still keep in contact with my profs and fellow students.

    All my degrees and schools have served me well and have played an important role in getting me a full time position teaching in an MBA program at an AACSB school. Prestigious and well-recognized schools? No way! Decent football or basketball teams? Who cares! An excellent education with great teachers, mentors, and colleagues that I still keep in contact?—You bet!
     
  7. fortiterinre

    fortiterinre New Member

    This is a hard question because certainly we all know a poseur or two whose principal and so far only achievement in life seems to have been graduation from a household name. I have to admit "prestige" was important to me for grad school because I knew I wanted to enter academe and I knew I wanted to have the freedom to travel or move and not worry that a regional university would lose its brand power the further I moved away. I think RA and subject strength is more important than prestige, but I have to admit prestige is up there.
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that's an excellent question.

    It seems to me that people, even professional educators on occasion, confuse whether or not something is impressive, with whethr or not something deserves to be impressive.

    I'm a very mean person, and sometimes I like to make pompous people look like idiots by asking them which university has a better program in subject X, a prestige school or some lower prestige school. Then I pick a subject X that the prestige school doesn't even offer. You'd be surprised how many people automatically say 'Stanford' or whatever, then kind of sneer at me in their superior way for asking such an asinine question. (The smarter ones smell a rat if the spread in perceived prestige is too big. And of course the honest ones say 'I don't know'.)

    The thing is that kind of stuff is self-reinforcing. If USNews polls deans and admissions officers about their general perceptions of different universities, you will get a list weighted towards the 'usual suspects'. And then the results come out that appear to "scientifically" justify those perceptions. It's like celebrities, where people are famous simply for being famous.

    Personally, I prefer to look at schools on a subject by subject basis. The list of 'best' programs in a particular subject might look very different than the typical university rankings. I mean, just think: agriculture. The best ag schools are gonna be the big land-grant universities, not the ivy league. Worcester Polytechnic clearly isn't as toney as MIT, but if your subject is fire science, the chemistry, physics and engineering of fires, fire resistance and firefighting, Worester Poly's the place to go. (They also offer a DL masters in fire science that's popular among the kind of guys who ride around on red trucks.)

    If we are talking about doctoral programs, it makes sense to me to look even more closely than that. Take philosophy as an example. The philosophical gourmet report breaks the subject of philosophy down, ranking departments by their strengths in particular specialties by polling prominent philosophers in those specialties. The epistemologists think that Rutgers is the best department in the English speaking world, narrowly beating out Oxford. Arizona State showed well, in ahead of schools like Johns Hopkins, the University of Pennsylvania and Stanford. If action theory gets you moving, the most prestigious department in the English speaking world among action theorists is UC Riverside. In the philosophy of physics, Oxford and the University of Pittsburgh are tied for #1. Who would have known that the CUNY Graduate Center is an international power in mathematical logic? (The logicians, apparently.)

    But you can cut it even finer than that. Each specialty has lots of research problems. Some are hot and get lots of international attention. Others are obscure and might only have a handful of people working on them. My point is that if every doctoral program is supposed to be producing original work and be making original contributions, then every credible doctoral program is probably going to be among the world leaders at whatever it happens to be doing at that moment, however obscure it is. Whether that's prestigious or not probably depends on whether or not you are working on the same research problems.

    That's one reason why I like to Google schools and see what they are up to. Sometimes obscure schools have some very interesting things going on. New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology likes blowing stuff up. They have an explosives test range and are very tight with Homeland Security and the alphabet agencies in working on things like improvised explosives, characterizing explosives residues and so on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2005

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