Best prelaw major?

In a private exchange, I was asked which undergraduate major would best prepare the student for law school and law practice. I replied with the standard line that any major will do provided it is intellectually rigorous and the student is sufficiently interested (and, I suppose talented) to study hard and do well.

That's common wisdom and probably true enough as far as it goes, but it DOES seem to me that, depending on the area of law one is interested in, certain majors MIGHT have special value:

-Intellectual property-physical or life science or engineering (a gimme)

-commercial or tax-accounting

-criminal law-a combination of English literature and a life science or chemistry

I notice that many common majors don't appear on my "list" including education, general business, history, psychology, sociology, or (surprise!) philosophy.

Comments?

 

When I was an undergrad double majoring in history and political science, most people simply assumed that I must be headed for law school. As you can see by my signature line, I have no law degree.

 

As you indicated (it's no suprise to me) there is a strong history of Philosophy being the best preparation for law school. There are several reasons for this. The first is that it teaches students to analyze arguments. Also, you must learn logic and logical thinking. Finally, you must learn to construct an argument. The most popular graduate destination for students with Bachelors degrees in Philosophy is law school.
Those interested might visit The Philosophical Gourmet,
http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com
It is run by Brian Leiter, the Director of the Law and Philosophy program at the University of Texas - Austin.
Jack

 

TH:

Well, why ever NOT? You been slackin' off again?

 

Jack,

Well, no WONDER! Look at THIS:

http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/perspective.htm

 

When I was an undergrad, I had never really even considered law school. My goal then was at least a PhD in History (which still remains my goal) and possibly a PhD in Political Science as well. The possibility of law school has come up twice in the two decades since completing my undergrad program. The idea was abandoned both times, once for considerations of family politics and once for financial reasons. So, the idea of a JD has slid down the old grad degree wish list a ways.

 

Yes, I know. This has been the case for a number of years and is the origin of the "You want fries with that?" joke.

As I said recently in another thread, I think that more people would shoot for these degrees (by which I mean doctoral degrees in Humanities/Arts subject areas) but the prospective students of today are simply aware that after spending years of work earning a PhD in Philosophy (for example) the possibility of their finding employment in their chosen field is essentially zero. The few jobs that become available go to the top students coming out of the top schools. With fewer jobs available, and with that information readily available, fewer students are enrolling. As that process continues, some departments have begun to drop their grad degrees altogether. For example, you can no longer earn a PhD in Philosophy at the University of Rhode Island. The program does not exist anymore. This is why there are so few DL grad programs in Philosophy, History, Sociology, Anthropology, etc. There are some people who will earn these degrees simply and solely because of their love of the subject. But these numbers are small, not enough to sustain a large number of academic programs across the country. Those who have sufficient interest will find their way to degreeinfo or some other DL info site and they will enroll at Lampeter or UNISA or Union or Sofia and earn their PhDs knowing that they can not reliably depend on these degrees for future employment (maybe a part-time gig at the local Community College.) This is neither good nor bad, it just is the way it is right now.
Jack

 

I agree with this reasoning. I'm not sure that courses which logic might dictate should be naturally preparatory for the study of law necessarily are. While I agree that an accounting course, for example, would be helpful at some point for someone who ends-up being a commercial and/or tax lawyer, I'm thinking that such a course might be more helpful once s/he's been admitted to the bar than it would be while s/he's going to law school.

Getting through law school, it seems to me, is -- or, maybe, at least should be -- more about training one to more easily comprehend the odd, repetitive, sometimes-tough-to-get-one's-mind-wrapped-around, three-dimensional, think-around-corners-that-others-don't-even-perceive-as-corners sort of stuff that is thrust upon the law student once s/he is stupid enough to sign-up and pay to be subjected to it.

To that end, Jack's logic, it seems to me, is impeccable.



Eastern Illinois University advises as follows:

Minoring in pre-law studies is an excellent step in preparing for law school. However, the most well-rounded students are typically the most well-prepared. A strong liberal arts education is the best framework for the critical thinking and writing skills essential for legal studies.

[...]

Students from many majors are admitted to law schools. The major criteria for admission are a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree from an accredited university, cumulative grade point average, Law School Admission Test (LSAT) score, good character, and records of constructive extra-curricular activities.

Students may apply to law school with a major in virtually any discipline in which a BA or BS has been earned. Among the more popular majors of Eastern's pre-law minors are Accountancy or other fields in Business, English, History, Journalism, Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology/Anthropology. Students in the natural and physical sciences also are successful in law school.

[...]



Courses Recommended to Prepare for Law School


FROM POLITICAL SCIENCE:

• 3515 Politics and the Legal Process
• 3523 Criminal Law
• 3533 Civil Proceedings
• 3903 Gender, Public Policy and the Law
• 4774 American Constitutional Law
• 4853 Contemporary Constitutional Development

FROM ENGLISH:

• 3001 Advanced Composition
• 4760 Studies in Professional Writing

FROM PHILOSOPHY:

• 1900G Logic

FROM HISTORY:

• 2010 History of the United States to 1877
• 3100 History of England, 1066-1688
• 3600, The U.S. Constitution and the Nation
• 4903 Colonial America to 1763
• 4904 The American Revolution, 1763-1789
• 4910 The Foundation of the American Constitutional and Political System

FROM BUSINESS:

• 2101 Financial Accounting
• 2750 Legal and Social Environment of Business

FROM JOURNALISM:

• 4771 Communication Law

FROM ECONOMICS:

• 2801 Principles of Economics I
• 2802 Principles of Economics II
• 4850 Economic Analysis of Law

FROM SOCIOLOGY:

• 2761 Introduction to Criminology
• 2750 Social Problems in Contemporary Society

FROM COMMUNICATION STUDIES:

• 2300 Persuasion

This strikes me as a pretty good list, comin' from a place like lil' ol' EIU.



The College Board (the people to do the CLEP exams) has an interesting pre-law studies page.



The political science department at Ohio University has a pre-law major. About it, they write:


Pre-Law Studies

Political Science has a well-deserved reputation as the preeminent field of study for students considering legal education. The emphasis on understanding the nature and role of law in our public lives, on critical thinking about political issues and institutions, and on learning to express our thought clearly on these matters, make a degree in Political Science an excellent gateway to the study of law. Whether your career goals are in public leadership, litigation, law enforcement, private practice, or even if you are not really sure what they are, we invite you to consider our program as a place to work and learn.

Along with a number of courses that specifically focus on the law, the Department of Political Science offers a broad array of related classes on politics and the different forms and functions of government. It also offers extensive for-credit internships in professional legal environments, pre-law advising, a thriving majors association, and connections to a network of campus resources, for the prospective student of law. With a total faculty of more than twenty and more than a half dozen professors involved in studying and teaching about different aspects of our legal environment, we have the resources to help you get what you need.


Careers

A legal education is valuable in a wide variety of careers. In addition to traditional lawyering - serving as a prosecutor or dealing with individual and private sector clients - attorneys work as legislative aides, political activists, business executives, reporters, political appointees, educators, policy analysts, and public officials. Anyone considering law school will want to explore the full range of careers open to those qualified to practice law.


The Pre-Law Curriculum

Pre-law majors, like all Political Science majors, are required to take introductory courses in American politics, world politics and political theory. Following the initial phase, students may select from a variety of Political Science tracks including Public Law, International Relations, Comparative Politics, Political Theory, American Government, Identity Politics and Social Movements, and Public Administration. In recognition of the fact that law school admission committees like to see students with a broad liberal arts education, high grades, and a variety of activities and experiences, we encourage our students to explore the full array of opportunities at Ohio University. As such, we have tried to maximize your autonomy by keeping the number of required courses as low as possible while suggesting that you consider the following courses offered by the department:

• The Politics of Law
• American Constitutional Law
• International Law
• Legal Theory and Social Problems
• Legal Research and Writing
• Civil Liberties
• Criminal Procedure
• Public Dispute Resolution
• Great Jurists

Indiana University, Northwest Campus, in Gary, Indiana offers this advice about a proper undergraduate pre-law curriculum...

While law schools give no preferential consideration to any particular major, admissions officers do often look for some exposure to areas essential to success in the study and practice of law, particularly:

1. Communication Skills: the law student must be able to express himself or herself concisely, precisely, and persuasively, on both written and oral levels. Competency in written expression is particularly essential. These skills can be perfected generally through courses that emphasize essay tests, term papers, and other written exercises, and specifically through English department courses in expository writing (e.g., W231, W233) and Communications courses in persuasive speaking (e.g., S121, S122, S223).
   
2. Analytical Skills: courses in Philosophy (e.g., P150, P100), mathematics, and the sciences will enhance the logical thought processes essential to the study and practice of law.
   
3. Research Skills: lawyers must know how to find data of all kinds and apply them to specific problems. A significant research project -- for example, a senior thesis or the equivalent in the student's major discipline -- will help develop these basic skills.
   
4. Knowledge from the Humanities and Social Sciences: a good lawyer must understand the social and governmental context in which problems arise. Courses in history, political science, sociology, and psychology are recommended.
   
5. Business Knowledge: a significant number of legal problems arise in or out of the business world. The School of Business and Economics regularly offers courses (e.g., L201) which introduce students to law and its connection to business. The study of economics, finance, and especially accounting can also be most useful.

Law school admission committees also judge the applicant on the overall quality of his or her undergraduate course of study as well as grades, so the Pre-Law student should avoid overloading schedules with pass/fail or lower level courses. Moreover, the study and practice of law is not purely an academic exercise; it deals with every aspect of society. Extracurricular experiences and practical work experience, especially for a lawyer or in a law-related field, strengthen the application. The development of leadership skills is a definite asset. Law schools are interested in students who have shown the ability to accept and handle responsibility.


Don't know if any of that's helpful, but this post now almost hits the 10,000-character-per-post limit, so it'll have to do for now.

 

As a totally unrelated, parenthetical aside, while looking around for pre-law studies stuff, I stumbled across a completely interesting -- or at least I know it will be to nosborne48 -- analysis of Justice Scalia entitled, "Is Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia a Homophobe?" that is very recent (dated August 2005). I couldn't stop myself from linking to it here. Enjoy!

 

These search terms, copied and pasted from here precisely as shown, into the Google search box, will yield many interesting links:

• +"pre-law studies" OR "prelaw studies" OR "pre law studies"

Or, if you'd like to confine the results to only college and university web sites, copy and paste the following:

• +"pre-law studies" OR "prelaw studies" OR "pre law studies" site:.edu

Or, if you really wanted to cover your bases, you could copy and paste:

• +"pre-law studies" OR "prelaw studies" OR "pre law studies" OR "pre-law study" OR "prelaw study" OR "pre law study" site:.edu

which yields some 35,000 or so search results.

Hope that helps, too.

 

During my undergrad (wow, seems like it was only yesterday!), one of my classmates had previously earned a LL.B. and an LL.M. from the U. of London but he wanted to extend his law practice into patents, so (of all things) he returned to school to complete a BSCS degree at FSU. All this of course while he maintained his practive over in Tampa. Very, VERY smart man. He tended to dominate the class discussion forums, but otherwise he was a very interesting man.

 

My undergrad was in the fine arts: a BFA.

While it didn't prepare me much for the study of law, at least when the lectures got a little too esoteric or Latin-laced and I was lost (and once this happens in a law school lecture, you almost never catch back up, best just to sit there and take a mental breather), at least I had a pleasant diversion in my doodling.

My lecture notes in law school were legendary: some real inspired artwork on them (as I was often lost); grades, however, were not so inspiring (no surprise).

 

Any major will do, really

But actually IN law school, I found certain fields to be quite rare...very few engineers or computer scientists...very few education majors...few hard sciences...LOTS of business and humanities (the latter including me).

I once worked with a lawyer who completed an MFA in studio art from UNM before going to law school. (The UNM MFA is treated as a doctoral program at UNM.)

I even had a fairly new but very promising middle aged public defender working for me who had a Bachelor of Music and, prior to law school, had "paid his dues" and made his living as a genuine jazz man! White, too, which gave him an endless fund of interesting stories. He used to dress for trials in a black pinstripe suit with black shirt and tie and a yellow silk handkerchief. Very classy but I sure couldn't have pulled it off!

 

How about Dramatic Arts?

 

Major in something you like that's a marketable skill (Business, education, etc.), then minor in Philosophy and Poly Sci. I know many lawyers who majored in a pre-law generic program, or poly sci, or philosophy, and before, during or after law school, decided the law wasn't for them. They had nothing to fall back on.

 

Major in something that you like and have a good chance of pulling a high GPA. Having just gone through the application process to law school I can tell you that numbers are the only things that really matter to schools. If you have the required GPA and LSAT for a school you get in. They could really care less about what you majored in or what school you went to. That being said the only thing I can see that might help you is going with a hard sciences background so that you can do IP work when you finish. Of course hard sciences are notoriously hard to get high GPAs in and this will severely limit your law school prospects.

 

Having read c130s posting I'd have to say that the philosophy espoused simply perpetuates the stereotype of lawyers.

"It doesn't matter what you study as long as you get a top GPA."

"It doesn't matter what you do as long as you win the case."

I know that I'm sometimes (happily) idealistic about such matters but I'd like to believe that somewhere there are people who actually care about the learning, the process of learning and the natural results of learning.

Even lawyers.

Jack

 

Whew! So, then... it wasn't just me who was getting creeped-out by c130's cynicism. That's a relief.

And, AGREED!

 

If you are going to school to learn about the "process of learning and the natural results of learning" than maybe a Phd would be a better avenue than a JD. The fact is that most of the nation's top law schools only care about numbers. Just look at www.lawschoolnumbers.com. The one or two people that get into top schools without the numbers tend to be under represented minorities with extrodinary circumstances. The idea that you will convince the adcoms that you were interested in the "learning process" and therefore your GPA isn't as high as it could be will not get you anywhere. All this really has to do with the current law school ranking system put into place by US Newsweek. They heavily rely on such items as admitted law students GPA/LSAT combos to rank schools. Therefore if a school wants to be considered a "top school" than it better only admit those with high numbers.

 

Your point is well-taken. Clearly, you're a "go-by-the-numbers" sort of person; and, no doubt, you'll be the same kind of lawyer. But that's not meant as a slight. There's a place in this world for such as you, and I, for one, am glad your type exists and tends to thrive. I have a feeling you'll be one of those lawyers who makes alot of money and lives in a big house and rises to the top of the ranks of whatever kind of law you end-up practicing... and I wish for you that kind of success. I'm serious.

The angle from which Jack's approaching it, though, is, I think, that for some of us not-by-the-numbers types, there's gotta' be more. There's just gotta' be! While you're out makin' those big bucks, Jack and I may be blissfully broke, but I'll bet we find whatever it is before you do... which probably won't be, sadly, before your first divorce or heart attack (of the non-fatal variety, of course), whichever comes first.