PCDI/Ashworth College - MHC Degree

Hey gang,

I was wondering if anyone has any input for the *Master of Health Administration* Degree through Ashworth College (PCDI). I've read conflicting reports on the quality of their master's level programs through other forums (everything from the school being a fraud to the best thing since sliced bread), and thought I would consult the folks in the know here.

I realize they are mainly a tech school, but is their master's degree a real master's degree...or are they simply (as the young people say) "posers"?

They're a DETC school, so that has to account for something, right?

Feedback always helpful.

 

The only thing that concerns me about this Ashworth degree is the "MHC". In an industry where every Masters of Heath Administration has familiar initials like MS or MHA, why on earth would Ashworth decide to have their degree stand out as something different with unfamiliar initials like MHC? Maybe this doesn't bother anyone but me.

 

I've seen degrees that vary in style and so forth too. I don't know if this is a factor in PCDI's quality of programs. They look like the program is good...but who knows. Is it worth nearly $5000 dollars to find out? Thats the other thing, Dr. Bear speaks of cheap schools that could be very good or very bad. So, how does one know?

What concerns me more, is that their literature is not all that clear on what you receive at the end. One piece of literature shows a degree that says "Master of Science in Health Care Administration", whereas another piece on the same program says "Master of Health Care Administration".

When you examine these diplomas close up through Adobe (you can read them if you have a sharp eye), there is absolutely no indication that a graduation date has been or would be put on the diploma itself. The wording drops off with "....the Undersigned have fixed their names". Thats it...and then the seal in the middle. This concerns me...unless with certainty the idea is simply to show you that a diploma is awarded at the end, but that of course it would have everything it is supposed to have on it.

Am I making too much of it, or is there a real concern with this school for others regarding the quality of their degrees? Can they really be considered degrees in the first place? I am not sure what really qualifies.

Open to discussion....

 

Oh, c'mon!

Yes!

No!

Yes!

Not it's not... at least not the discussion you're trying to make it. Look, don't get me wrong. I'm not upset with you or think you're stupid or anything, despite how my responses, above, may have made it look. I'm just sort of surprised by the whole discussion.

There's nothing to be suspicious of. Ashworth is a legitimate college. It's got two things -- and only two things -- with which anyone tends to ever take issue:

1. It's nationally accredited (instead of regionally accredited); and,
   
2. It's not only "for profit," but it's set up almost like an assembly line... with all the impersonal, treat-the-students-a-bit-like-cattle downsides that one can imagine in a situation like that.[/list=1]It's not a diploma mill. There's nothing shady about it. Ashworth, as a decidedly for-profit entity owned by the decidedly for-profit PCDI, simply doesn't try to hide the fact that it exists primarily to make money for its owners, not necessarily to educate people; and it's only going to do the dead minimum it needs to do in order to do business in a legal -- and, in a strictly legal sense, an ethical -- way; and to offer an education that despite its blister-packaged feel, nevertheless meets accreditation standards; and it doesn't suffer fools among its students who try to turn their experience into some kind of touchy-feely thing like they might be able to do at some small, private, non-profit college with fountains and 300-year-old trees and marble statuary.
   
   In exchange for the student's willingness to get the kind of support that one might expect when one buys a piece of computer software; and in exchange for not getting from Ashworth that warm & fuzzy feeling that one might get if one were at an institution that considers the money-making part secondary to the education part, Ashworth offers the hands-down best price in higher education. At just under $5,000 (actually, I believe it's $4,889, if I recall... which can be paid at $99/mo, with no interest) -- including all texts and whatever else one would need to complete the courses -- Ashworth's masters degree programs have no competitors in the area of price.
   
   It's the Wal*Mart of education, and like Wal*Mart, it's structured the way it's structured so it can eek-out a profit from its exceedingly low price by means of standardization. Though it knows it must, of course, deal with the exceptional situations (students questions, payment issues, snags in the testing process, etc.), the "hurry-up-and-get-your-questions-asked-so-I-can-move-on-to-another-customer" attitude of its support personnel clearly shows that Ashworth knows that that's where it loses money... so it tries to spend as little time doing it as possible without, of course, giving the task so little of its attention that it begins to be objectively unethical.
   
   Students with a high tolerance for waiting on hold on the phone and not really getting exactly the answer they were looking for either because the answer they wanted simply isn't the answer, or because the Ashworth support person they happened to get when they called the 800-number wasn't of particularly high quality as customer support personnel go; or who have patience for having to call the 800-number more than once to get a credit transferred or a missing textbook sent to them, or whatever else they might need, will find the Ashworth experience a bit irritating at times, but overall they'll tell you that all things considered, taking the quality of the coursework into consideration, and balanced by the unbelievably low price, it was the right move for them.
   
   Students, on the other hand, who want everything to be perfect; who have a low tolerance for being treated a little like cattle generally; who think that two minutes on hold when making a support call is outrageous and grounds for a refund of everything they've paid so far; who want to be pampered and hand-held and have the college open their skulls and just dump-in all the knowledge; who expect the Ashworth support person on the other end of the phone line to have a PhD in pretty much every subject and, therefore, able to give them a mini-lecture that will suddenly open their eyes and provide them the enlightment of the ages over the phone; and/or who may actually not really be all that smart, when it comes right down to it (though they think they are) and, therefore, can't seem to understand the course material from their readings, the CD-ROM and/or DVD lectures, and the exercises, and who, therefore, are on the phone constantly to Ashworth's support department... those kind of students are likely not to find the Ashworth experience a very good one. And those students, believe me, are the ones going into other fora and saying that Ashworth is the anti-Christ.
   
   A person who graduates with any of Ashworth's masters degrees will emerge with a real degree, accredited by an agency that has been approved to accredit such degrees by the United States Department of Education (USDE) and/or its Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). It don't get no better than that.
   
   Of course it's a national (as opposed to a regional) accreditation, so there's a whole threads-worth of arguing that we could do here about the utility of that. Regionally-accredited degrees are the so-called "gold standard." Nationally-accredited degrees, while accredited by genuine, high-quality, USDE/CHEA-approved accreditors just like regionally-accredited degrees are, are, nevertheless, not as well-received by certain employers (usually only the ones you'd never want to work for anyway because they're too full of themselves in many other ways besides just that, but that's just my opinion), or by regionally-accredited colleges and/or universities to which you might on day wish to use said nationally-accredited degree as requisite to an even higher, regionally-accredited degree.
   
   There's no question that someone contemplating a nationally-accredited masters degree (or bachelors or even associates, for that matter) must first investigate the future utility of such a degree for their particular purposes; and should first check with any regionally-accredited institutions to which they might one day wish to offer said degree as requisite to an advanced program there. No question.
   
   That said, there are many regionally-accredited institutions that will accept and honor a nationally-accredited degree on its face; and certainly most, if not all, of the other nationally-accredited institutions will do so. And most employers don't give a darn. Being presented with a job candidate's nationally-accredited degree, they'll simply look-up the institution that issued it in their handy-dandy directory of schools that have USDE- and/or CHEA-approved accreditation and, having found it listed there, will consider the degree on-par with any other degree. Ashworth is listed in all those directories because it is, in fact, accredited by a USDE- and/or CHEA-approved agency.
   
   Ashworth's degrees are fine. The experience of getting one is different, there's no question about that. But they're fine. If I were in the market for an MBA; and as long as said MBA didn't need to be AACSB-accredited for some reason; and especially if ease and flexibility of study, as well as low cost were considerations, I'd no more hesitate to get an Ashworth MBA than I would to eat a bagel with cream cheese for breakfast.
   
   They're perfectly fine degrees. They're just delivered a bit by assembly line... with all that that implies... but that in exchange for the best price and flexibility of delivery out there for a bona fide masters degree.
   
   Everything's a trade off in life. Ashworth asks you to trade that warm and fuzzy feeling that having your hand held can give you for a real degree, delivered on your schedule, for a bargain-basement price.
   
   You decide.

 

Being the former Ashworth Student that I am, I couldn't agree more strongly with DesElms.

It's everything he said it was and everything he said it wasn't. So far my degree has served me very well, but getting it was a chore.

 

Um...hello, you see where the second notation of "message edited" is located? Just after the word "degree"...you see it? Essentially from the start of that paragraph to the end of your post IS ALL THAT YOU REALLY NEEDED TO SAY.

Instead, it looks like you bit my head off prior to that, bled through my post on a rampage, and then played nice at the end. LOL, whats up with that? I'm not angry, just wondering where all that energy was coming from in your response to what I felt was really an innocent question based on uncertainty of a school. I mean, I heard that PCDI actually owns the DETC...so excuse me if I am not the grand holder of knowledge on everything "Distance Learning" like yourself.

I've got a thick shell, but your response was just a bit off the mark in the way of courtesy. The information you offered was good to have (generally), but the execution needs a little work.

I was simply seeking clarification on a school's program. Because I'm a nice guy and all, thanks for your input. I guess I will simply have to have clairvoyance next time to know what a stupid question is on here.

 

Philoscholar,

I don't believe it was a stupid question at all...and you got a lenghty but well rounded answer. I wouldn't sweat it.

 

Its also still not clear whether (based on the school's literature I've seen) the diploma from Ashworth College actually contains a graduation date...or is the school saving money on ink by not putting it on there in the first place? Yeah, yeah...it might be a stupid question, but I don't care I'm asking it anyway. This where their legitimacy came in for me...it did not appear on their sample in the literature.

 

Nice of you to offer that. Thanks.

 

To be honest I'm not sure if there is a date on the diploma or not. I know that there certainly will be one on your transcripts, which is more likely to be what a prospective employer is going to request.

 

So? You don't get to decide how I make my posts. If I choose to telegraph to the reader that I think your inquisition of Ashworth and its diploma was ridiculous, I get to... in any way I want. Of course I would never have gone that far in the way I worded it, except that you decided you wanted to come in here and worry about form over content and shove all the time and effort I took to eliminate all doubt about Ashworth -- and give you a helluva lot of good information along the way -- back up my nose.

The word "ingrate" comes to mind... but that's just me.

Gee, that's funny. You seem angry. And disingenuous, too. And immature, as long as I'm at it. That's what's up with that, Sparky.

If you can't see how silly you were lookin' -- and, therefore, how appropriate was my reaction thereto -- then I'm certainly not going to try to disabuse you of your illusions. It obviously pisses you off.

Then you're hanging around in distance education forums where the posters are idiots. Maybe your standards got lowered and you've simply not made the adjustment to being here yet.

Do you realize what a child you sound like? You might want to retreat, do a reality check, regroup, and return at a later date.

No, you don't... apparently. And, equally apparently, you don't quite get how forums -- at least the good ones -- work.

Apparently, you've not read enough of my posts here. Believe me, when I get discourteous, you'll know it.

But, apparently, not good enough. Obviously, I forgot to sugar-coat it for you.

Just a word to the wise: My guess, from your whining in this thread, is that you're described somewhere in the paragraph, in my post about which you're complaining, that begins, "Students, on the other hand, who want everything to be perfect; who have a low tolerance for..." and that ends with "...into other fora and saying that Ashworth is the anti-Christ." That being the case, you might want to consider taking a pass on Ashworth.

Gosh. Thanks for the pointer. I'll be sure to watch for the next time the PhiloScholar School of Forum Etiquette does a free seminar at a Howard Johnson's near me.

And you got it, did you not? Sorry I didn't wrap it up with the pretty bow that you apparently expected. You might want to consider going back to the other fora where you get all the wrong information. Apparently there are no surprises for you there.

Remember that thing I said a moment ago about you being disingenuous? You're doing it again.

No one -- including me -- said that you asked a stupid question. You're just inordinately sensitive and defensive. You don't like feeling like someone made you look stupid (which no one here but you has done, by the way); and you're so in fear of that happening that you perceive it has even when it hasn't... and react accordingly. You need to re-read -- and this time, I mean carefully -- what I wrote and how I wrote it; and then your inappropriate reaction.

The person who skewered you, here, is you.

(Whew! Sure am glad I'm never going to petition his Blue Lodge. I could just send-in the blackball myself and save everyone alot of time!)

 

PCDI owns the DETC??? That's like saying the University of Minnesota owns the North Central Commission, or whoever they are accredited by.

The DETC is an accrediting body recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and CHEA, so no...a school they accredit would not actually own them. After all...Ashworth College is not a mill...they don't run their own accrediting body.

Will a masters degree from Ashworth get you a job at a Fortune 500 company? Probably not...unless you have already got one fantastic resume. Is it an accredited degree "good enough for government work" and most employers? You betcha.

 

Well, I've said what I've already needed to say. I am not going to argue with you. You came across like I should have known better in asking my original question, and then you respond again like I had no right to call you on your first response. I do when you try to hide the notion that I might be ignorant of what you think is common knowledge. I have nothing to prove to you, and I don't care about your opinions of me. We've never met, and you're shooting from the hip. I simply felt you were harsh in your response. Be a man and say thanks for the feedback. Or be grumpy...your choice. Either way, water off a duck's back.

Whatever, I'm not wasting anymore time on your wa-wa response...so that topic is null and void. Anyway, thanks again. I'm on to the next thing...feel free to stick around and argue with yourself if you'd like.

Bye.

 

You know, if a prospective employer ever asked me for my transcripts, it would take me 'til I got all the way down into the lobby and halfway down the block, after getting up and walking out of his office, to stop laughing. I realize it's standard operating procedure for some jobs; and that lots of people do it. But not me. No matter what. Some things -- including my credit report, for example -- an employer just doesn't get to see.

There's not a darned thing wrong with my transcripts, mind you -- or my credit report, either -- but it's just none of an employers damned business! Ever! No matter what. It's the pinciple of the thing.

When I graduated and got the diploma, the accredited institution was saying, in effect, "Well, we don't know about anyone else, but you've certainly met our requirements to get this sheepskin... so here ya' go." I did what I needed to do to get the credential, and that's all the employer needs to know. Anything beyond that is just none of his business... at least unless I choose to make it his business. For example, if I needed to prove to him that I took a certain number of hours in a certain kind of coursework because it directly applies to the position, then I'd reconsider, of course. But other than that, forget it.

If that's not good enough for him, then he's almost certianly someone I'd never want to work for anyway. Employers who miss the point at that early stage of the game are likely to miss it on much more important stuff later.

Or so it is my opinion.

 

Hey PhiloScholar, DesElms is a nice guy and harmless. He's blunt and abrasive at times, but really informative and a real asset to Degree Info.

We've had our rounds but I consider him a friend. Remember, this is a very cold and impersonal means of communication. Take most personal comments cum grano salis.

 

Based on all I've read about Ashworth's Masters programs, they are what they say they are: Inexpensive, nationally accredited masters degrees.

I have NEVER been asked for a copy of my diplomas for degree validation or any other reason. I have had to provide lots of transcripts however.

It really doesn't sound like you'd be happy with the program. I think you'd continue to have doubts. There are lots of programs out there, but none for the price. I wouldn't go there, but they don't offer a masters in my field.

AND you may not like the way DesElms says what he says, but if you look at what he has to say about the school, you'll see he knows a lot and thankfully shares it. Well, at least I'm thankful he shares what he shares. He has been blunt with me too. Actually, DesElms is blunt with most of us.

 

Well, darn, Jimmy! We posted at the same time and said almost the same thing about DesElms!

 

My daughter and wife are enrolled at Ashworth and I am very happy with their curricula.

The psychology courses are excellent and present the latest research in nearly all the "mental disorders." Some of the books challenge what has become known as "junk (or pseudo) science."

Next year, if things go the way I plan, I will probably enroll in their Master's in Criminal Justice program.

 

Apparently not.

Oh, but you are. Or aren't you noticing?

A little, at first... yes. But that was my editorial comment about how silly I thought was your approach. But I got past that and tried to help you and did so in no small way. But still, you're ungrateful and worried about form over content. It boggles the mind.

That was because you didn't. Is any of this starting to sink in yet?

And again with the sensitivity and defensiveness. You really need to do that withdrawal, reassessment, and regrouping thing. You really do... 'cause you're just skewering yourself even further. And since I'm guessing that under other circumstances you're probably a pretty nice guy, it pains me to witness that.

Yet here you are.

I just said I thought you were probably a pretty nice guy, notwithstanding this moment. That's not good enough either? Man, you're kinda' hard to satisfy. I reiterate: Stay away from Ashworth!

Well, I don't see it that way... but let's say, for a moment, that you're right. If so, then why are you so intent on being such an easy target?

Again, yes... perhaps at first.... as an editorial comment, which I get to make. So do you, by the way. Apparently I just do it a little better than you do. But keep posting here long enough and you'll improve, I'm sure.

Sorry. No can do. And what arrogance it takes for you to suggest that I do under the circumstances.

Now you're projecting.

I repeat: Apparently not.

Yet here you are, reading these words, even now. Oh, you may not post anything further here because then it would show that you really didn't move on and that you really do care more than you're pretending. But God and you know I'm right... don't they Reverend.

One can only hope.

 

"Brilliant minds think alike."

Only thing, it's nowhere near 1:50 a.m. It's 10 p.m.