Online M.Div. program

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Guest, Aug 7, 2005.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wesley Biblical Seminary, Jackson, Mississippi, has an online M.Div. program.

    The tuition is $285 per credit hour and the school is accredited by ATS with this off Wesley's site:

    Looks like the student will only have to spend 30 hours total on campus and the other 60 hours can be completed online.

    The school is "multidenominational" but I think it used to be a school of the Congregational Methodist Church.
     
  2. cdhale

    cdhale Member

    So is ATS opening up their requirements and allowing a degree to be completed completely via DL now?

    Their earlier standard was that only 1/3 of the degree could be completed via non-face to face courses (DL) although other off campus classes were acceptable.

    This requirement scuttled my earlier program of study with Abilene Christian University where I was only allowed to take 18 of the necessary 54 hours via DL.

    If ATS is allowing more DL courses, that is a good thing indeed.

    clint
     
  3. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Well, it is about past time ATS decided to get a little less anal-retentive about accrediting DL. Now, if only we could get them to accredit fully online MDivs. Then when that happens, maybe we could start working on the ABA.
     
  4. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    You're all right about this school, and it's good news. Dr Clifton is correct about WBS' early ties to the CMC; another wing of the CMC merged with the Congregationalists (cf. Piedmont College).
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thank you for confirming WBS' early ties to the CMC. I thought that was correct.

    Yes, many Congegational Methodist churches broke away and joined the Congregationalists in 1887. In fact, 2/3's did.

    You mentioned Piedmont. Episcopal priest Barbara Brown Taylor is Butman (Dr. Harry Butman passed away July 29. He was an icon in the NA.) Professor of Religion and Philosophy at Piedmont and now holds ministerial standing with the Congregationalists.

    She is listed in the latest YEARBOOK of the National Association Congregational Chrisitan Churches as holding such standing.
     
  6. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    Good news indeed. I'm glad ATS is finally becoming more DL friendly. It's also great that such a quality seminary like WBS is offering a DL MDiv. IMO the unaccredited and almost accredited seminaries often offer fairly poor quality academic programs--especially in regard to language requirements.
     
  7. boydston

    boydston New Member

    Nothing has changed -- except perhaps at Wesley.

    ATS STILL requires 1 year of residence for both the MA and the MDiv. This means that if you are an MDiv student you could complete two of the three years using a combination of online or other distance delivery classes. However, you still (and this has been the case for at least the past few years) have to take one year in residence.

    Many seminaries have gotten creative and created flexible intensive programs that allow students to do the one year in residence without relocation.

    Someone at Wesley is just spinning this thing to make it sound like they are on the cutting edge.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi Brad,

    Have always had great respect and admiration for your intense knowledge regarding academic scholarship and accreditation issues.

    However, are you saying when Wesley says one can complete the M.Div. with only 30 hours on campus this isn't accurate? Or, are you saying those 30 hours have to be completed by spending a year on campus, 15 hours each semester?

    From the ATS web site:

    Thanks!
     
  9. boydston

    boydston New Member

    I am saying that is accurate but that does not reflect any new changes to ATS guidelines. It is apparently new at Wesley, though.
    Students have to complete at least 30 hours total in residence at an approved campus (some schools have extended campuses -- e.g. you can complete a Fuller MDiv at their Seattle site without ever being in residence on their main Pasadena campus. The Seattle site is approved for residency and would meet the requirement for their 30 hours.)

    The 30 hours in residence does not have to be all in one block of time.

    Some schools are offering intensive one or two week modules on campus. Those classes, because they are on campus, would meet the residency requirement. I don't know if Wesley has that yet. I suspect they are moving that direction.

    This is a model that was pioneered with the DMin programs and which has trickled down to the MA and MDiv programs.

    So, to make it more concrete, here is an example of how this could work. A student might accumulate 45 hours through online classes. Then he might perhaps take 15 hours of classes from off site seminars which have an agreement with a school to offer seminary credit.

    Concurrent to doing these things he might attend one week intensives on his primary seminary's campus over a period of 3 or 4 years -- accumulating the remaining 30 hours.

    Clear as mud? :)

    The thing is that there are so many ways to configure a program cutting and pasting credits from various institutions and forms of delivery. But the two basic things to keep in mind are that you have to have plan so that all of these units meet requirements of your primary school once you transfer them in (best to get the school to agree to it prior to taking the class). A few schools are big enough and offer enough classes now that you could get all of your field based units from the same institution. It looks like Wesley is trying to get to this point so that they will be offering enough internet classes that one could take 60 units there.

    Secondly, you have to have a total of 30 hours in residence at your school.
     
  10. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    O the pearl of great price have you found it...

    Hi to my fave Pietist! Thanks, Brad, for clearing this up. I always appreciate your terrific posts. J.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    For a Congregational Christian, sure, especially since the waters aren't all that murky. ;)
     
  12. cdhale

    cdhale Member

    When I was as student at ACU (mentioned above) the program in which I was enrolled was a 54 hour MA program. ATS required that 2/3 of this program be completed in face to face classes, whether on campus or in satellite locations or wherever. There simply had to be real personal contact between student and teacher. One could complete the entire program and never go to Abilene. However, only 18 hours could be done on the internet or other true DL formats.

    Had I been in the MDiv program (which is 96 hours, I think) then I could have taken 32 hours via DL as that would constitute 1/3 of the program.

    That info was garnered from both the ATS website and ACU's theological administration who verified its veracity. So if ATS only requires 30 hours on campus (or face to face classes) then it is a change, at least in some small degree, toward less on-campus requirements.

    clint
     
  13. boydston

    boydston New Member

    Yes, but I think that change was made three or four years ago. My memory is fuzzy on this. It could have been two years ago. But I think it was longer. Anyway it is not a new change. It has been long enough that lots of schools have entire programs in place built around the way the rules currently read.
     
  14. cdhale

    cdhale Member

    I am certainly not an authority on the timing of accreditation changes. I was not a frequenter of the ATS website or anything.

    But this happened in January of 2005. It was listed on their website as of then. I haven't been back to check it out since.

    I was scheduled to take a class this past spring semester and was told that it could not be applied to my program due to ATS accreditation requirements.

    That is all I know.

    clint
     
  15. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    Hey, Gang.

    If you pay a brief visit to the ATS website (www.ats.edu), you will find that they make available all documents outlining standards relating to extension sites and distance education (Standard 10 is of most direct interest to this discussion). The most recent revision was adopted in January of 2002.

    At that time, the policies employed by ATS changed in order to allow for greater flexibility in delivery. The 1-year-equivalency in residence has indeed been retained as a requirement. I'd really rather not take the time to summarize the ATS policies here, but would encourage you all to familiarize yourselves with them.
     
  16. cdhale

    cdhale Member

    Thanks Cory,
    Really, I wasn't trying to argue. It really doesn't matter what the standards were before, as they have changed at some point, whenever it was.

    So the issue is that they have made themselves more open to DL. That is good.

    It appears that perhaps ACU had outdated info that they passed to me and the website was at that time also behind.

    But those are not important points as I am not pursuing that degree any longer.

    Way to go ATS, whenever you did it.

    clint
     
  17. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    Just curious: What's ACU?
     
  18. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    OOPS! I see it's Abilene Christian University.
     

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