Excelsior, DETC and Transfer Credit

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Mary A, Jul 21, 2005.

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  1. Mary A

    Mary A Member

    Hi - I thought I would share the edited text of a message from Exclesior below. The edits are to remove the personal information.

    Excelsior appears to be moving in the direction of accepting NA credits and specifically DETC credits which is a change from their previous position.

    Mary A

    =========
    Dear <>:

    I am writing in response to your recent email message to our Admissions Office regarding your interest in our MBA program and your intention to transfer credits that you've earned at <a DETC accredited school>. First, let me thank you for considering Excelsior College. We are proud of our over 30-year tradition of providing high-quality and flexible degree program options to adult learners throughout the world.

    I would also like to let you know that our academic affairs staff is in the process of developing a policy governing the process of transfer credit review and acceptance from institutions that have national or professional, but not regional accreditation. I expect that the policy and procedures will be approved within the next few months; once this occurs, we will make the information available to enrolled and prospective students via our website.

    Please let me know if you have any further questions.

    Advisement and Evaluation
    School of Business and Technology
    Excelsior College
     
  2. I am sure this question has been asked before.....but..

    What other RA schools accept NA credit? I know NCU does...but are there other RA schools...specifically BM schools which accept NA credits?
     
  3. dis.funk.sh.null

    dis.funk.sh.null New Member

    Matt, I think you can review the list of universities on the "American Council on Education" site... that may very well be a start.

    ---

    Mary, this is GREAT NEWS!
     
  4. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    From what little I know:

    St. LEO
    Capella
    U of Phoenix
    NCU

    are all RA that accept an undergrad NA degree for their Masters programs.
     
  5. Hmm...all of them big players in the Distance Learning area.

    Anyone else know of state schools that accept NA degrees/credits?
     
  6. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    I think that Mountain State will.
     
  7. Casey

    Casey New Member

  8. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Great news...

    This is definitely great news for all of the students who worked hard for NA credits and degrees. Excelsior should be proud of their new policy. I wonder what prompted the change?

    Now, only if TESC would at least update their embarrassing website. http://www.tesc.edu/prospective/undergraduate/credit/transfer.php

    Thomas Edison State College will not accept in direct transfer credits earned at institutions accredited by other associations, such as the Association of Independent Colleges and Schools, American Association of Bible Colleges, National Association of Trade and Technical Schools, National Home Study Council, and Commission on Recognition of Post-Secondary Accreditation-approved professional schools, which are outside regionally accredited colleges.
     
  9. I wish I could find some old threads where the PHDers and experts commented on NA credits.
     
  10. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

  12. jagmct1

    jagmct1 New Member

    Hello Everyone,

    I too tried to transfer over to Excelsior College, but was denied due to my MBA being accredited by the DETC. This fueled my fire to fight the college on this discrimination. With the help of Mr. Lambert (Executive President - DETC), I drafted the following letter to admissions at Excelsior......

    Dear Excelsior College Admissions Department,

    A few days ago, I called the your admissions department with interest in transferring my MBA degree from Columbia Southern University to your MBA program at Excelsior College. As your website states, students can transfer 42 credits into Excelsior MBA program and only be required to take two more classes to receive an MBA from your institution. I was informed that my MBA credits from Columbia Southern University would not transfer over due to CSU being nationally accredited by the Distance Education & Training Council (DETC) (http://www.detc.org).

    The Commission on Higher Education of MSA has specifically endorsed the CHEA policy statement called "Transfer and the Public Interest." The policy states in part: "Institutions...need to assure that transfer decisions are not made solely on the source of accreditation of a sending...institution." The CHEA endorsement of the above statement suggests to me that they would not object to Excelsior from at least examining my transcripts from a DETC accredited institution.

    I was surprised that Excelsior would not even consider a transcript from a DETC accredited institution. It is my understanding that half of the public members on the DETC Accrediting Commission were formerly on the Excelsior Board of Visitors. One would think that Excelsior executives would have some confidence in the judgment of these Excelsior Board alumni.

    My alma mater, CSU, has partnered with six other regionally accredited universities to offer online training to the students of those universities. These institutions include University of North Alabama, University of West Alabama, Trinidad State Junior College, Clinton-Muscatine-Scott Community Colleges (Eastern Iowa), University of West Florida and Northcentral University. This is a vote of confidence in CSU.

    I understand that federal legislation (HR 609, as amended on July 13) is at this moment moving through the House which, when enacted, will make the practice of refusing to consider credit transfer on the sole basis of the source of accreditation of the sending institution a violation of federal law....maybe now is a good time to position Excelsior to be ahead of the law, which I am told has an excellent chance of enactment within a year or less.

    Transfer of Credit Alert

    Over the course of the last three years, as the House of Representatives has
    unveiled several versions of its bills to reauthorize the Higher Education Act
    of 1965, we have become increasingly concerned with the bills' unprecedented and
    intrusive provisions on transfer of credit. The previous iterations of the bill
    included not only substantive proposals on the process of credit evaluation;
    they also contained highly burdensome reporting requirements.

    AACRAO is pleased to note that the most recent version of the bill, a substitute
    to H.R. 609 (for more information visit
    http://www.aacrao.org/transcript/index.cfm?fuseaction=show_view&doc_id=2746) has
    done away with the reporting requirements of the previous versions, and has
    dropped most of the substantive federal requirements. The bill does, however,
    continue to contain a "non-discrimination" clause that would prohibit
    institutions of higher education from basing their credit acceptance policies on
    the accreditation of sending institutions if the accrediting body is recognized
    by the Secretary of Education.

    AACRAO continues to object to the inclusion of this mandate, because
    institutions should be allowed to exercise their best academic judgment with
    regard to the terms and conditions that their students must meet to earn their
    credentials. In addition, we are very concerned that by denying institutions the
    right to set higher standards than the Secretary, the new federal transfer
    mandate would eliminate an important tool without providing additional
    alternatives.

    Rep. Tim Bishop of New York has proposed a compromise alternative that would
    require sending institutions-typically nationally accredited schools-whose
    students have experienced difficulty in transferring their credits to supply
    such basic information as faculty qualifications, course syllabi, and textbooks
    used. This approach would ensure that collegiate credit evaluators would have
    access to at least some basic information about coursework from such
    institutions.

    We encourage you to review the Bishop amendment, and inform your member of
    Congress of your views.

    Time is of the essence on this important matter. The amendment will be voted on
    in the subcommittee tomorrow, July 14, 2005. It is important to point out that
    the Bishop amendment does not require sending institutions to provide any
    information whatsoever, it only relieves receiving institutions from conducting
    a course-by-course evaluation for those non-regionally accredited schools that
    fail to provide this basic information. As such, the amendment strikes a
    reasonable balance between the interests of the sending and receiving schools.

    If you feel strongly about this important matter, now is the time to contact
    Congress. A list of the members of the Subcommittee and their phone numbers are
    below. It is essential that Members of Congress hear from the college
    administrators this proposal will affect the most.

    Thanks in advance for your consideration!


    Members of the Subcommittee:
    Howard P. "Buck" McKeon (R-Calif.)
    202-225-4527

    Jon C. Porter (R-Nev.)
    202-225-3252

    John Boehner (R-Ohio)
    202-225-4527

    Tom Petri (R-Wisc.)
    202-225-2476

    Michael Castle (R-Del.)
    202-225-4165

    Sam Johnson (R-Texas)
    (202) 225-4201

    Vernon Ehlers (R-Mich.)
    (202) 225-3831

    Patrick Tiberi (R-Ohio)
    (202) 225-5355

    Ric Keller (R-Fla.)
    (202) 225-2176

    Tom Osborne (R-Neb.)
    202-225-6435

    Bob Inglis (R-S.C.)
    202-225-6030

    Cathy McMorris (R-Wash.)
    202-225-2006

    Tom Price (R-Ga.)
    202-225-4501

    Louis G. Fortuno (R-P.R.)
    202-225-2615

    Charles Boustany (R-La.)
    202-225-2031

    Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.)
    202-225-2071

    Thelma Drake (R-Va.)
    202-225-4215

    Randy Kuhl (R-N.Y.)
    202-225-3161

    Dale Kildee (D-Mich.)
    202-225-3611

    Donald Payne (D-N.Y.)
    202-225-3436

    Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.)
    202-225-5516

    John Tierney (D-Mass.)
    202-225-8020

    Ron Kind (D-Wisc.)
    202-225-5506

    David Wu (D-Ore.)
    202-225-0855

    Rush Holt (D-N.J.)
    202-225-5801

    Betty McCollum (D-Minn.)
    202-225-6631

    Chris VanHollen (D-Md.)
    202-225-5341

    Tim Ryan (D-Ohio)
    202-225-5261

    Robert Scott (D-Va.)
    202-225-8351

    Susan Davis (D-Calif.)
    202-225-2040

    John Barrow (D-Ga.)
    202-225-2823

    Major Owens (D-N.Y.)
    225-225-6231


    ****
    American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers
    One Dupont Circle, NW, Suite 520, Washington, DC 20036 (202) 293-9161
    To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.aacrao.org/unsubscribe

    Your response and feedback regarding this matter would be greatly appreciated.

    Jamie Gauthier - MBA
    (xxx) xxx-xxxx (Home) [removed by moderator]
    (xxx) xxx-xxxx (Cell) [removed by moderator]



    I then received this response a week later...........

    Dear Mr. Gauthier:

    I am writing in response to your recent email message to our Admissions
    Office regarding your interest in our MBA program and your intention to
    transfer credits that you've earned at Columbia Southern University.
    First, let me thank you for considering Excelsior College. We are proud of
    our over 30-year tradition of providing high-quality and flexible degree
    program options to adult learners throughout the world.

    I would also like to let you know that our academic affairs staff is in the
    process of developing a policy governing the process of transfer credit
    review and acceptance from institutions that have national or professional,
    but not regional accreditation. Columbia Southern University, with DETC
    accreditation, is one such institution. I expect that the policy and
    procedures will be approved within the next few months; once this occurs,
    we will make the information available to enrolled and prospective students
    via our website.

    Please let me know if you have any further questions.

    Sincerely,

    Anne F. Connor
    Director of Advisement and Evaluation
    School of Business and Technology
    Excelsior College
    Phone: (518)464-8711
    Fax: (518)464-8777
    [email protected]
     
  13. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Jamie,

    let me compliment you on your effort. It has been my experience that a professional dialog usually will result in a positive response. As Rich would say, I took my CSU MBA out for a spin and was able to get several universities to either accept it as qualifying or to reduce the number of credits required for another degree. By that I mean they wouldn't transfer credit since the credits were part of a degree but they would allow the coursework to exempt me from some classes based upon completing similar classes at CSU. While not perfect it did show me that at least folks were willing to listen. I did not deal with the first admissions person but rather struck up a dialog with the graduate school dept head. A point that I like to make is that all my professors for my courses at CSU held RA terminal degrees or equivalent.

    My suspicion is that NA credits will eventually be accepted and allowed for whatever nominal credits a school normally allows. While not much it will be a start.

    Best wishes and good luck on your pursuit.

    Kevin
     
  14. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    An excellent and well worded letter. Personally I have read the mission statements regarding Excelsior and how they started up...then to find out about how limiting they were in their acceptance of non RA credits. It always struck me as hypocritical.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    jagmct1,

    If you believe that your MBA from a DETC school is comparable to one from a regionally accredited school, then why are you trying to use it to get one from a regionally accredited school like Excelsior?

    -=Steve=-
     
  16. Casey

    Casey New Member

    DETC and RA - Comparable? ....

    Comparable in quality and rigor? Yes, maybe even more so. Did you get a chance to read the recent SCUPS to NCU transfer threads? Both schools apparently have similar syllabi and course work, and both have (or had) common ownership. One is regionally accredited, and the other remains unaccredited as a flat out DETC reject.

    Comparable in utility? Probably not; at least not until HR 609, or its substitute, is passed and signed into law by the majority party. The regionals had their shot at institutional autonomy, and they blew it. They treated people unfairly for illogical reasons, and now may suffer the consequences for it. But, the feds have no business regulating in this area, right? Normally I’d agree, but not this time.

    Properly accredited schools receive much of their tuition money from Title IV programs. And forcing students to repeat coursework only because regional accreditors do not like national accreditors (who have the same level of government recognition) is simply unfair. Wasting money and time completing duplicate coursework serves no legitimate purpose. Increased time in school and larger student loans debts all in the name of autonomy certainly does not benefit the American public.

    In any case, jagmct1’s decision to seek a second MBA may not even be related to DETC v RA comparability. I notice how some people get an extra BA or BS from one of the test out schools just because they can do so quickly. I also noticed how some people decide to pursue second MBAs in different concentration areas. Our friend Ted Heiks may be one such example? So, maybe Excelsior has an MBA concentration that jagmct1 is interested in, or maybe he just wants to avoid any potential degree utility problems. Hopefully, he’ll explain his rationale to us.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2005
  17. jagmct1

    jagmct1 New Member

    Honestly, I'm unsure if I'll pursue another MBA with Excelsior or not. I challenged Exclsior not so much on my own merit (although it was worded that way), but for DETC graduates in general. If I have to, I'll write letters to every RA school regarding this matter

    Although, with the 42 credit transfer available and having to only take two more classes to get another MBA from another school is not such a bad deal.

    I've attended and have graduated from two regional accredited schools. One was for my reserve police academy Cabrillo College (WASC) (6 months) and the other was for my full-time police academy Evergreen Valley College (WASC) (6 months).

    I have not attended a regionally accredited graduate program and would be possibly interested, out of sheer curiosity, to see if the RA school is in fact more or less academically challenging. And of course, the stigma of DETC vs. RA (which will slowly diminish with time a federal law), I would like to have the utility of an RA masters to teach someday. Plus, why not get a second master's from another school.
     
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Fair enough

    Fair enough -- I can respect that it's primarily an effort on principle.

    -=Steve=-
     
  19. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Personally I applaud your efforts.

    Also Bush04 is right on with Federally subsidised schools wasting money of tax payers and students (who incidentally pay taxes as well) all in the name of what? Snottery? (I know it's not a word, but it should be.)

    America must be the only country (correct me if I am wrong please) where a government or THE government will recognize a degree and the institution that granted it, yet a non-governmental private organization (are accreditors for profit?) third party can refuse to recognize the degree and then turn around and ask the government for money and recognition.

    Silly isn't the word for it.
     

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