Hello, I've noticed that a number of graduate schools requires letters of recommendation from the applicants to their Master programs. However, isn't someone with a distance undergraduate degree faced with some problems when applying to these schools, since, normally, you have had only limited personal contact to the teaching staff? So, will a failure to provide a letter of recommendation negatively impact the decision of a school to admit a prospective student? Could you share some experiences on this issue? Thanks, Dennis Siemens
For $200., I will recommend them. For $500., I will recommend them very highly. Bill Highsmith (ARSE--Association of Recommending Service Executives)
No fair, Bill. You beat me to the punch, but such is the business world. I would like to offer my services as well: Russell's Recommendations, Resumes and Reports General Letter of Recommendation: $100 Character Reference: $125 Academic Reference: $150 Accredited Academic Reference: $1000 Fabricated Transcript: $500 Padded Resume: $500 Reports, 25 pages or less: $1000 Pre-Written Master's Theses: $2500 Pre-Written Doctoral Dissertations: $4000 Russell
The letters of recommendation which I have personally been acquainted with could easily be given by a DL professor. While the DL prof may not know the student personally, based on interaction with the student in terms of course work, the prof could recommend that the student was capable of pursuing further studies in a given field. There may be some additional comments/explanations which need to be made, but I don't know that this would severely limit the DL student from pursuing a higher degree. Russell
Hello Dennis, I'm not aware of any graduate admissions committees in the USA (and elsewhere) that don't require letters of recommendation, except for those with open admissions. Certainly, the admissions committee that I've served on has always required recommendations, although ours is largely a traditional format rather than entirely DL. While this could definitely present a problem, it's also true that faculty routinely write letters of recommendation for students that they may not know well but whose academic performance they're familiar with. (I've done so many times.) At the very least, you should be able to obtain a suitable recommendaton from your DL faculty advisor; at the very least, this individual should have had a great deal of correspondence with you, and feel that he/she "knows you". If your grades and scores are impressive enough, many committees may not care if your recommendations are nonacademic in nature, (i.e.,from employers, supervisors, etc.) Academic recommendations are absolutely essential in cases in which the applicant's credentials are less than exemplary. In addition, some admissions committees will only consider academic reommendations. Our committee won't even consider applications until recommendations have been received. However, keep the following in mind: 1) Institutions with open admissions policies tend to care little about recommendations; 2) An individual with stellar academic credentials may not be badly hurt by having "average recommendations" or nonacademic recommendations; 3) An individual with less than stellar academic credentials may be greatly helped by having impressive academic recommendations; and 4) An individual with stellar credentials and terrible recommendations is not likely to be admitted. Hope this is some use... Regards, Mark
When I applied to my Master's program, they required 3 reference letters. I used an undergrad instructor for one, and work supervisors for the other two, and had no problem. Try to think of your DL instructors whose teaching style or personality you really liked and just ask him/her. Usually, people are flattered to be asked, as it's a compliment to them. The fact that your DL teachers never met you in person doesn't take away from their knowledge of your academic performance. It also wouldn't hurt to include at least one from a work supervisor, just to show what a great all-around person you are. Best of luck! Bruce
Mark had an interesting comment about when academic recommendations are best, and when work supervisor recommendations are OK. I wonder how his answer might change if the work is closely related to the master's program, for example, a candidate for a masters in engineering submits a recommendation from a manager of a industrial research and development department. By the way, I was just admitted to a masters in education program at the University of Vermont with recommendations from two engineers I worked with in industry and a ham radio operator I taught a class with. ------------------ Gerry Ashton
A good deal for both the student and my company! I just buy them from Contentville for $32.00, make copies, and I have just made $3968.00. This DL thing is good ain't it? Russell CEO
I am on my second masters and was never asked for a reference by either school(CSUDH and ERAU). Nor do I know any other students who needed a letter of reference. Perhaps California schools are less formal than those in other parts of the US.
Thanks folks, for your very helpful answers. It seems like my worries were unfounded as far as recommendation letters are concerned. However, I'm an Excelsior student and as you know this school acts mainly as an academic evaluation/banking service setting up degree standards you can meet in a variety of different ways. They don't actually teach courses. Does anyone know how the recommendation letters issue is handeled by Excelsior? As things look at present, I probably will combine examinations with correspondence courses from other institutions to meet my degree requirements. So is it possible that other schools from which I'll be taking single correspondence courses also will provide me with a recommendation letter? Thank you, Dennis Siemens
Many,but certainly not all,Distance Learners have taken some courses on campus.In my case I accrued over 90 credits traditionally before finishing up DL. Several professors and colleagues based at those schools provided reference letters over the years. That is one way to do it. Good Luck
The school won't, but an instructor might. You might be surprised how much interaction you can have with an instructor at a distance, even in print- and mail-based courses. When I was teaching business writing through correspondence, I asked students to include a cover sheet with each assignment in which they commented on the assignment, asked questions, responded to previous evaluations etc. Several took the opportunity to "chat" a bit about their lives and about what they were writing for their jobs. I'd have had no problem writing recommendations for some. I actually did have one student ask if I would write a recommendation. Unfortunately, that student's performance was, ah, less than stellar. I responded that I'd be willing to do so if she sent me the appropriate forms and included a sample of the lukewarm recommendation I'd write. Never heard back. ------------------ Kristin Evenson Hirst DistanceLearn.About.com
Hi Dennis, Excelsior program advisors act as referees. If you have already graduated, you send them a letter requesting the recommendation with perhaps some guiding thoughts vis-a-vis focus (will vary depending on the graduate program for which you are applying). Best to call your (post graduation) former advisor and let them know what you need then follow up with the letter (they require a written request, though that is apparently not the case if the recommendation is in furtherance of a transfer to another institution's undergraduate program - hmm?). On a related note, you had asked some time ago about acceptance of the Excelsior degree where the majority of the trascripted credit was earned via examination. Mine was almost entirely populated by exam credit, and I have never yet encountered a problem. This include unconditional acceptances to master's programs in the US, the UK, and Australia, in fields as diverse as Computing (MS), Education (M.Ed.), Law (LLM), and Business (MBA). Worth mentioning again, that for the purposes of advanced entry to a master's program, I found my Excelsior (Regents) degree was deemed equivalent to an Australian BSc(Hons), which is a postgraduate degree there. You will also recall that Peter Glaeser was recently accepted to (I think) 9 out of 10 UK MA/LLM programs for which he applied, on the basis of an Excelsior diploma. So, experience is that the Excelsior degree earned via examination or otherwise, has very robust utility.
Gerry, congratulations on your admission to Vermont's M.E. program! In my somewhat hurriedly prepared comments, I neglected to state that we normally accept (and to some degree, expect and value) work-related recommendations from applicants who have been in the private sector for many years. I do apologize for any misunderstanding. Regards, Mark
Hello Lawrie, It's nice to hear from you again. Thank you also for the valuable information. By the way, did you publish already somewhere the graduate schools your were accepted to? Somehow I've missed it, it seems. Sometimes I read that though schools accept Excelsior graduates very well they refuse to give credit for examinations taken. Rich, for example, mentioned such a case recently when discussing AACSB accreditation. Now, could you explain to me what does this possibly mean? Does this mean that you are basically back to square one, though accepted into a master program. Which courses do you usually have to retake, only those related to the focus/subject of your master program? Thank you, Dennis Siemens
I have published most of them, but in no coherent fashion, and I am STILL GATHERING DATA. These schools all offer DL programs (since that is what interests me) and MOST are, well, cheap. This last characteristic is important to me due to an admirable inherited cultural predilection to prudence and frugality (i.e. I'm cheap). Unfortunately, this tends to eliminate more prestigious, expensive programs, from consideration. To the specifics of those mentioned in my previous post, prices are current estimates for the full program, including cost of books, any required travel, and examination fees - i.e. these are the all inclusive costings. Accepted into the following programs - MS Computer Systems, City University, WA - $16,000 MBA Amber University, TX - $6,000+ (now Amberton - note that, at the time, the MBA was not 100% DL, but is now) MBA Morehead State University, KY - $6,600+ (*above 4 courses acceptable GMAT score - that required of all students) M.Ed Southern Queensland U, Australia - $3,500 LLM U of Northumbria, UK - $4,225 There are other pending significant results. I don't know the specifics of the case you say Rich referenced, though from your outline I suspect the issue may likely have been acceptance of Excelsior transcripted "course" or exam credit, for the purposes of meeting MBA subject PREREQUISITES. For example, acceptance of "Principles of Accounting" as the required prerequisite for entry into the MBA core course, "Managerial Accounting 601" (by way of example). I must say, I've never noticed a problem during many idle hours interrogating a multitude of DL MBA programs, AACSB or otherwise. Indeed, it is also the case that some AACSB DL MBA programs actually designate specific CLEP and DANTES exams as meeting MBA course prerequisites. The University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, DL MBA comes to mind as a useful example of the practice. Note also that in a preliminary move, I requested to take University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, MBA AACSB core courses before enrollment. They asked that I fax them a copy of my transcript so they could verify prerequisite eligibility and general graduate program eligibility. I later received authorization to take the MBA courses, there were no restrictions I can recall. I did not pursue it further due to the costs (counting everything, cost of the Colorado Springs DL MBA program in now around $15,000). Point is that they were looking at a Regents/Excelsior transcript with virtually nothing but proficiency test credit, and they didn't bat an eye, in fact, they seemed to accept it readily. Of course, there are quite possibly other institutions that will not accept same, but I have not encountered them.
