I hate to keep distracting from the flame wars here with my bothersome little posts (sarcasm), but I have more questions about another potential school. Call me paranoid if you like, but I want to make sure I don't take a dead end road. After scratching RIT and Excelsior off my list, I am now looking at TESC. Specifically I am interested in the BSAST degree which has a specialization in three areas of interest to me (Engineering Graphics, Manufacturing Engineering Technology, and Mechanical Engineering Technology). When I look at the requirements for the Engineering Graphics it is extremely temping because almost all of my prior credits (A.A.S. in Computer Aided Design plus two extra semesters toward a BS in Industrial Technology) could apply directly. Many of the other classes I could probably either test out of or hopefully I would stand a fair chance at using the portfolio assessment option (over 10 years experience in the field). With 85 hours going into the program I could probably knock this one out pretty quick if I tried real hard. My question is concerning the usefulness of any one of these three degree's to continue into a Masters program later if I choose to do so. I know very little about the workings of the graduate level system so I'm not sure how well (if at all) these might fit into the picture. Which one of these would leave more options open for graduate level work and in what area of study would they most likely apply? Also, if Dr. Levicoff is reading, I believe you mentioned gaining allot of credit through the portfolio assessment at TESC and I would like to discuss the details of this either here or (if you wish) in private. Again, sorry to bother, carry on. Daniel Alexander
I reviewed the list of programs in engineering technology that are accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (http://www.abet.org). I noticed that there are associates and bachelors in engineering technology, but no master's programs. This means that to progress beyond the bachelor's, you would have to be admitted to a master of science in engineering, not engineering technology. I don't know what your chance of this would be. My guess is that you would not be admitted on the strength of a BS in engineering technology alone, but with some significant professional accomplishments or published papers, you might get in. Also, TESC does not appear to be accredited by ABET; this is a significant disadvantage, especially in the world of academics and professional licensing. ABET is a professional accreditor, similar to the ABA for law schools. Good luck, Gerry Ashton PE
How DARE you?! You got some attitude guy. You need a good flaming! RIT would look very good on a resume, I think. But if you don't have the wealth of Bill Gates... I know nothing about your specific field, so I can only make generic comments. What I would do is think of some masters programs that I would like to apply to down the line, then examine their entrance requirements very closely. Do they simply require a generic bachelors in your subject, or are they very specific about the particular courses that they want to see and about how those credits were earned? You will probably always be better off the closer your undergraduate program resembles the undergraduate program offered by your prospective graduate school itself. By that I mean course titles. If they require their own undergraduates to take XYZ, then it helps if they look at your transcript and see XYZ listed. But schools vary in how slavishly they hold to that, hence looking at their graduate catalogs. As far as distance-education specific problems, I think that if you are in an engineering related subject, they are gonna want to see hands-on experiences. Labs. But if you already have an on-campus associates plus an additional year of school and lots of on-the-job experience, I think you are in great shape. A few schools state that they do not accept examination or portfolio credit in transfer, so make sure that your graduate school accepts them. Another suggestion: perhaps you could just telephone a graduate department that you are interested in and put the questions to them. Tell them that you are a prospective graduate student considering finishing his undergraduate work at TESC, including examination and portfolio credit, and ask them for their opinion. Personally I see no problem, but engineering graphics isn't my field.
Actually the company will be footing the bill for tuition and books so cost wasn't that much of a factor in my decision. RIT is a pretty impressive school, the BSMET program is ABET accredited, but as a result they have a residency requirement. I think the requirement was 5 on-campus labs over the course of the 5 year program. Each one supposedly around 3-4 days each. I am a long ways from New York and I don't see the company footing the bill for those trips. Unfortunately that was the only ABET accredited DL program I found in my field. So, down the list I go.... ABET doesn't mean all that much to me nor has it meant anything to any of the employers I've worked for so far. Sure it would be nice and might open an extra door one day, but certainly not a hindrence if I don't have it. I don't expect I'll ever have any desire to persue a P.E. or similar certification or license. Actually I don't even need to degree, I just want to go back to school for my B.S. and leave the doors open to keep on going in the future if I choose. Another thing, how do the examinations and portfoliio credits normally show on a transcript? Are they given letter grades? The examination credits don't bother me so much because I don't think anybody would view it any differently than a CLEP test at any other school. I have never heard or known of anybody who has done a portfolio assessment so I worry that it may be viewed negatively or possibly bring into question my whole degree if the portfolio assessment was obviously a part of it. Would I be better off just to take the class in order to avoid it? Thanks, Daniel Alexander
Hi Daniel! As a TESC graduate, I would recommend the school, particularly if there are examinations available in the subjects you need to complete your degree. You can finish very quickly if you are motivated. I didn't bother trying to earn credits by portfolio, because although many people seem to think you can earn credits merely for having been alive for a while, it's not that simple. For me, it was faster and easier to earn the credits by examination. When I went to TESC, the portfolio process was quite detailed, and there were no guarantees of credit after a student went to all the trouble of assembling the portfolio. (When you take an exam, there's no mystery -- as long as you pass, the credits are yours!) Hopefully, you will hear from others who went the portfolio route. When I first started at TESC, I thought I'd earn a lot of "easy credits" with portfolio, but when I investigated further, it was easier to just take the tests in the same subject areas! I don't know whether a degree from TESC will help or hinder your chances for getting into the graduate school of your choice, but from my own experience, I haven't found any resistance. Additionally, the alumni newsletter lists graduates' accomplishments, and there are always several people listed who are earning advanced degrees from good schools. I'm not familiar with your field, so I don't have any specific examples for you. I would second the recommendation which suggested that you contact the grad schools of your choice and see if they will accept a degree from TESC, but be prepared to get very vague answers (at least that's what happened to me.) Perhaps you could call TESC and ask if any of their graduates went on to attend any of the schools that interest you. Whatever you decide to do, please let us know. Good luck! Regards, Susan
Some of the courses I don't think would be something they could really offer a comprehensive "test" on. For example, Machine Design I and II would be something that I might want to go the portfolio route with since that is essentially what I do for a living. I could probably get some pretty impressive recommendations to throw in as well. The problem I have though, is that regardless of how rigorous the portfolio requirements are, the people who may look at my transcripts won't know it. People are suspicious by nature I've found. I also wonder that if it might not take me longer to put the portfolio together than it would for me to just take the classes. Just because I'd be so picky about it. Daniel Alexander
Since the focus of your question was entry into a masters degree, I think Gerry Aston gave good advice. He warned that an engineering technology degree might not be a path to graduate school. I don't think he was talking about PE qualifications, because I don't think you can sit for the EIT exam with an BSET-type degree, the EIT exam being a prerequisite for the PE exam. You might want to query a few schools of interest on this since I'm sure you'd rather know now than after you've spent two years completing your BS degree program. Bill Highsmith
Hi again, Daniel! I know what you mean about being a perfectionist on the portfolio. When I was considering it, I started putting information together, and I just didn't know where to stop -- so I just quit and took the tests. (Also, I started wondering at what point "documenting life experiences" becomes nothing more than "obnoxious bragging"... I can see how you might have problems taking tests in certain subject areas. TESC can let you know which tests (aside from their own exams, CLEP, and DANTES) they will accept. They may even have some suggestions on obscure sources for unusual tests. Try talking with a few people who have worked in the testing department at TESC for a long time, and see if they can help. I'm sure that over the years, they've seen it all! I still don't know for sure if TESC is right for you. I think the other postings in this topic offer some great information and suggestions on how to make your decision. Keep us posted! Susan
Wouldn't that just mean that there are no "ABET accredited" Masters level ET degree's? I will search around and see if I can find any at all (ABET accredited or otherwise). But, I'm not necessarily stuck on a masters that is specifically in Engineering Technology as the only thing I might be interested in if I chose to continue on. For instance, my coworker has a BS in Engineering but is finishing his masters in Industrial Psychology (I believe). Obviously that's not specifically dealing with Engineering (probably very little) but it is somewhat still related to his job and career. This is what I mean by not specific. I just don't want to be forced into practically starting over from scratch so I can move to the next degree level. I also don't want to be forced into taking a BS that I have very little interest in just so I can apply it towards a Masters later. I may just be overcomplicating the situation by looking that far ahead. Maybe I should just shutup, go to school, and be happy somebody else is paying for it this time. I thank everyone for their input. Daniel Alexander
Just for reference the Excelsior College baccalaureate degree programs in electronics engineering technology and nuclear engineering technology are accredited by the Technology Accreditation Commission (TAC) of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET). http://www.excelsior.edu/tec_accr.htm John
My answer related to getting a graduate engineering degree. I imagine TESC would be fine for getting into many master's programs other than engineering. I'm doing something a bit similar, I'm going for a master's in education with teaching licensure in physics; all the technical content was done with my BSEE and MSEE. I just have to take education courses. Gerry Ashton
I realise the originator if this thread isn't interested in a PE license, but just to correct some slightly incorrect information, the education requirements for a PE license vary from state to state. Usually, a bachelor of engineering technology can become a PE, but must have more years of experience than a bachelor of engineering. A few states insist in an ABET accredited engineering degree and just won't take anything other American degree. I have not heard of a state that won't take high quality foreign degrees. Gerry Ashton
