Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

I'm looking for an affordable either Baptist or non-denominational online seminary that would not require a bachelor degree. I would prefer a two-year or four-year program.

Currently, I'm an associate pastor at a growing church, and wanting to learn from the program. I say that as there seems to be some questionable programs out there. I want to EARN a degree not purchase one.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

 

At this moment I cannot recall any respected seminaries that do not require a bachelor's degree.

However, I would venture to guess you may find one that will admit you on a probationary basis and then fully admit you after having taken a few classes to gauge your academic abilities.

You may want to look at some of the schools accredtied by TRACS.

You could also check out South African Theological Seminary.

 

I can't think of a single accredited seminary worth its salt that's fully online and will let you have a masters in theology or ministry or an MDiv without having a BA or BS first. Period. I'm sure there are unaccredited seminaries that will. And, having just written what I just wrote, I think I might be remembering that Luther Rice might have some kind of conditional admission for non-bachlors degree holders, but I'm not sure. So, maybe there are some out there that will take you. But the circumstances, I'm guessing, would have to be exceptional. Jimmy's right about at least one thing: If any out there would do it, they're probably gonna' be TRACS (or maybe ABHE) accredited.

It seems you don't want a bachelors... but, honestly, if you'll hear me out on this, I think I know of a unique bachelors program that was created pretty much with you (or at least folks like you) in mind...

There's a unique, regionally-accredited bachelors program out there that I know of that was created by a Methodist college chaplain (but which goes out of its way to be non-denominational) in response to his sense that many ministers/pastors in his area were preaching, but with no formal education to speak of; and who would never in a million years be able to first get their bachelors and then go to a formal seminary.

So he created a bachelors program that pretty much covers all the really essential parts of a typical MDiv program, but at the bachelors level, in 60 hours of upper-division coursework. And, again, it's regionally-accredited and fully distance learning.

It's called a "Bachelor of Pastoral Studies" program, but do not be misled. Other BA programs with that same name at other institutions are not nearly as vocationally-oriented as is this one. This program really was created for guys in what I perceive to be exactly your shoes. I could be wrong, of course, but based on what you've written, I have the feeling that this program would do it for you. Then, thereafter, if you wanted to pick-up a Masters in Theology (MTh) from a place like the one Jimmy recommended (South African Theological Seminary), I'll bet there would, at that point, be more than just a few denominations that would, upon closely examining the combined coursework of those two degrees, be willing to declare, at least for their purposes, that the two of them, combined and viewed as a whole, would be MDiv equivalent. It's just a hunch, mind you... but this BA program I'm about to link you to is that unusual and unique!

Check out Southwest College of Winfield Kansas's fully online, regionally-accredited, inordinately practical Bachelor of Pastoral Studies program. I think you'll be surprised.

Remember, though, that it's a 60-hour, in effect, degree completion program. So you'll also need (if you don't have any undergraduate credits already), and will have to first take, the first 60 hours of lower-division general educational coursework (i.e., the equivalent of an associates degree). You can either take those sixty hours at Southwest College so that your entire 120 hours, by the time you graduate with the BA in Pastoral Studies, will be from one place; or, if you really wanted to save some money, you could go get a quick-and-dirty (and really inexpensive) DETC-accredited associates degree from
Ashworth College, and then go do the 60-hours of upper-division work to earn your BA in Pastoral Studies from Southwest College. You'll save some money that way since those 60 lower-division hours at Ashworth would be alot less expensive than if you took them at Southwest; and I happen to know that Southwest will accept all 60-hours of the DETC-accredited Ashworth associates degree, on its face, as lower-division transfer credit into its BA in Pastoral Studies program (of course I invite you to verifty that first... but that's what Southwest told me over the phone about six months ago).

Don't know if that will help, but before you dismiss it out-of-hand, really and truly read-up on it and see if it would work for you.

Hope that helps!

 

Matt,

I know of no programs who would admit you to a Masters. There are some that have graduate certifcate programs that would.

My suggestion is get the Bachelors and then the Masters. SATS mentioned above (South African....) is very very affordable and equivalent of accredited. Check out TRACS for other bachelors programs.

If you are sure you will never likely need an accredited degree and cannot afford one then check out Nations University. They are free (other than a 100.00 a year administrative fee to US students only). Again, even in this situation you would have to get a Bachelors first and then go on to a Masters. They are a Church of Christ affiliated school with some limited transfer to other accredited Church of Christ Schools. Exams are multiple choice and essay, some courses have other project related requirements.

Good luck. Let us know what you decided.

North

 

Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

I've been told by some of my friends in seminary administration that ATS allows a certain percentage of student admits to be exceptions to the bachelor's requirement. I can't remember if it is 10% or 20% -- something in that range. Schools don't have to admit these special students to their programs but a lot do make allowance for mature students (generally 35 years and older) who lack a bachelor's degree but show evidence of being able to do the work.

ATS is the standard theological school accreditation in the US and Canada. However, ATS accredited degrees cannot be completed entirely online. There is a one year residency requirement for both MA and MDiv programs. BUT, the good news is that this residency can be completed through short-term on-campus intensives offered by many schools. In other words, you wouldn't have to move to some place to get a degree. Two-thirds of the degree could be completed online or through other dispersed delivery options.

Here is a list of ATS schools offering distance education as an option. Not all of them will allow students without a bachelors into their programs. But some will. You’ll just have to do the detective work.

Someone has already mentioned the South African Theological Seminary option. They are online experts and are respected and rigorous. You could do BTh and MTh programs through them for less than the total cost of doing a lot of the online degrees offered in the US. Because they are in South Africa they are not ATS accredited (and because you can do the total program from a distance). But they are accredited in the SA system and they are respected.

 

Re: Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

Hmm. Well... depends, I guess, on how you define "almost" -- and maybe "liberal," in this context, too. I'd say, based on what I know that the typical student wants when s/he turns to any of the big three, the answer, as a practical matter, is probably "no, not really." But some might think it's darned close enough... especially when compared with many of the other RA institutions out there.

Yep... although I'm trying to remember what the limit is. I've written about it here before -- less than six months ago, in fact -- but the damned SEARCH feature here still isn't coughing-up those not-so-old posts.

Umm... lemmee go look again...

[time passes]

...okay I'm back. I can't quickly find what I thought I was looking for on that site, and don't have time to really dig for it. But if I recall, about 30 of those 60 lower-division (associates degree level) hours can be CLEPped out of. But you would really need to check with a woman there named Marie Greene at 316-946-1116. She's Southwest's CLEP and DANTES resident expert.

Here's the list of subjects at Southwest that one can CLEP one's way out of; and here's the list of subjects at Southwest that one can DANTES (DSST) one's way out of.

Southwest is also a CLEP and DANTES test center. And it's very military-friendly!

When transferring lower-division credits from a place like Ashworth into a Southwest program, two types of courses, they told me, they look for by name:

1. English Composition I and II (three hours each, for a total of six hours); and,
   
2. College-level mathematics (preferably college algebra, but a variety of college-level or business mathematics courses will, they told me, work) (three hours).[/list=1]One needs to remember, though, that some of Ashworth's courses which actually satisfy those requirements quite nicely aren't named that way; so one would, on one's Southwest College application, want to go out of one's way to point-out which Ashworth courses, despite their names, satisfy the Southwest English comp and mathematics requirements.
   
   All lower-division coursework transferred-in to a Southwest BA must have a "C" grade (2.0 GPA) or higher; and -- get this -- if one wants to speed things up a bit, one can actually begin the bachelors program at Southwest before one has completed one's Ashworth AS degree. As long as one has the six hours of English comp, and the three hours of college math; and as long as one is at least halfway through the Ashworth AS program (i.e., as long as one has at least 30 hours of Ashworth credits), one can be admitted to any Southwest online BA program. As long as we're covering entrance requirements, the applicant would need at least three years of work experience on their resume, too.
   
   In order for transfer students to graduate from a Southwest College BA program, one needs:
   • 124 hours of undergraduate credits (between the Ashworth AS and Southwest's BA courses) and which satisfy the BA's various Southwest-specific degree requirements.
     
   • Said 124 undergraduate hours must, combined, have an overall "C" (2.0 GPA) or higher.
     
   • At least 60 of the 124 undergraduate hours must be completed at a four-year-degree-granting institution (which Southwest is, but which Ashworth is not). So, in other words, if one earns one's 60-hour AS from Ashworth, then pretty much the entire second half of the BA (60 of the remaining 64 hours, in this case) would need to either be from Southwest (because it's a four-year-degree-granting institution) or from any other four-year-degree-granting institution out there (like LSU, for example, just to name one). This could really be a money-saver since Southwest's tuition is approximately two to three times higher than most LSU undergraduate coursework. But you can't earn all of those 60 hours elsewhere...
     
   • At least 30 of the 64 hours that one would have to take on top of one's Ashworth AS degree in order to earn a Southwest BA would have to be taken from Southwest itself; and,
     
   • The last 15 hours of the Southwest BA degree program (i.e., one-half of the minimum 30 hours that must be earned from Southwest altogether and in any case), must be from Southwest. In other words, however one puts it all together, one's last 15 contiguous hours of study -- that last semester -- before the Southwest BA is finally awarded must be earned at Southwest itself (via distance, of course... but, nevertheless, distance courses from Southwest, and not from any other institution).
   And now that I'm writing all this, it's starting to come back to me: I'm virtually certain, now, that up to half (30 hours) of the lower-division coursework transferred-in to a Southwest BA program can be via CLEP or DANTES. Again, I advise you to verify, but now that my memory of all this is being jogged, I think the CLEP/DANTES number is 30 hours -- or about half of the associates degree that Southwest will accept in transfer into its BA programs.
   
   So... let's see... I've always wondered this, and now that you've got me going, Steve, I want to, once and for all, take this to its logical end...
   
   At one end of the spectrum, we have the cost of one getting one's entire BA from Southwest, at Southwest's published tuition rate of $246/credit hour. If the BA is 124 credit hours, that's a grand total of $30,504.
   
   At the other end of the spectrum, one could, given the rules I've summarized above, do it on the relatively super-cheap by doing either of the following:
   • Go to Ashworth College and get an AS for around $3,000 or thereabouts; and then,
     
     Transfer said Ashworth AS into the Southwest BA program, leaving 64 hours of upper-division coursework that must be completed; and then,
     
     Take up to 34 hours (the maximum allowed) of upper-division coursework from a four-year-degree-granting institution such as LSU, for example, for substantially less than Southwest (I think it's around $70/hour at LSU = $2,380 for said 34 hours); and then,
     
     Take the minimum required 30 hours of coursework directly from Southwest at $246/hour = $7,380; for a grand total of:
     
     $3,000 + $2,380 + $7,380 = $12,760 (versus $30,504)
     
     OR
     
   • Do the above, except only take 30 hours of coursework from Ashworth (at a cost of about $1,500); and then,
     
     CLEP and/or DANTES 30 hours-worth at an approximate cost of 6 to maybe 10 CLEP and/or DANTES exams at $50 each. Let's call it 8, just for grins... 8 x $50 = $400; for a grand total of:
     
     $400 + $1,500 + $2,380 + $7,380 = $11,660 (versus $30,504)[/list=a]Of course, as fun as those numbers are to dream about, getting that many (34) upper-division credits from LSU (for example) would simply not be workable -- especially with Southwest's BA in Pastoral Studies, given the uniqueness of most of that degree's 60 hours of degree-speicific, upper-division coursework. LSU simply doesn't offer most (or even any, I suspect) of those courses which Southwest would find acceptable. So, as a practical matter, the entire 64 hours of degree-specific, upper-division coursework beyond the Ashworth AS degree (and/or a combination of Ashworth or LSU credits, and CLEP/DANTES credits) would need to be taken at Southwest... for a grand total of 64 hours x $246/hour = $15,774.
     
     But saving money on at least the lower-division coursework is most certainly possible. For example, transferring-in 30 hours of CLEP/DANTES exams for a total of maybe around $400 to $500 (let's call it $500 to play it safe); then taking either 30 hours at Ashworth for roughly $1,500 or 30 hours at LSU for around $2,100, for a grand total of $500 + (either $1,500 or $2,100) = $2,000 to $2,600 for the entire 60 lower-division hours by using 30 hours of CLEP/DANTES.
     
     Add the two together, and one can, conceivably, get a Southwest BA in Pastoral Studies for as low as $15,774 + (either 2,000 or $2,600) = $17,774 to $18,374 (versus $30,504 if all 124 hours were done completely at Southwest... a savings of $12,130 to $12,730).
     
     If one says to oneself, "Oh, forget CLEP/DANTES... I'll just get the Ashworth AS degree," then one is looking at roughly $3,000 for the Ashworth AS + $15,774 for 64 upper-division hours at Southwest for a grand total of $18,774 (versus $30,504 if all 124 hours were done completely at Southwest... a savings of $11,730)
     
     So, basically, considering the cost of text books and whatnot for the 64 hours at Southwest, plus whatever other unexpected expenses we're somehow not considering here and which may pop-up when one least expects it, one is probably looking at... oh... let's just call it a nice, round $20,000 for a Southwest BA degree if one covers said degree's lower-division coursework with either an Ashworth AS degree alone; or, just half of an Ashworth AS degree, plus 30 credits of CLEP and/or DANTES.
     
     For budgeting purposes, that's $20K ÷ 48 months = $417/mo for four years. This rounded-up $20K compares with $30,504 ($636/mo for four years) to just do the whole thing at Southwest... for a savings of roughly $10,504... probably, in reality, closer to $11,000 (a roughly $230/mo savings).
     
     Interesting. I've been meaning to run those numbers for a long time. Now I have. Thanks for the incentive, Steve!

 

Re: Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

Oh, yeah... I forgot to ask in my previous post: Are you saying it's "fascinating" because you, too, can see how interestingly different and inordinately vocational this particular BA in Pastoral Studies is compared with most (actually, nearly all, as nearly as I can tell) others out there which bear a similar or even identical name? And, if so, what are some of your thoughts on that?

Or was it for another reason?

Just askin'

 

CORRECTION/ADDENDUM

In my earlier post, I linked to the page on the Southwest site where one may see the list of courses that one can CLEP out of there. The link, in that post, somehow ended-up with an HTML <br /> code in it -- and a malformed one, at that -- effectively breaking the link.

The correct link is: http://www.sckans.edu/online/current_clep_subjects.htm

Sorry for the error (although, it's a vBulletin bug, not my doing).

 

You may want to check the Bachelor of Divinity from the University of London

http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/prospective_students/undergraduate/heythrop/divinity/index.shtml

 

I, for one, am quite familiar with it... and you're right that it's a nice one, too. But the thread-starter specified that it must be on US soil. In fact, that requirement knocks out SATS, too... for what that's worth.

But I get your point: I'm in here talking about how unusual (and, more to the point, inordinately vocational) the Southwest BA in Pastoral Studies is, when the BD from UOL is quite appropriate, too. But, even then, if you look at its actual coursework, there are many down-and-dirty, running-a-church-related courses that the Southwest program has which the UOL program does not. In that sense, it's kinda' like the other BA's with similar names to which I referred earlier: They're excellent, but still not exactly like this unusual Southwest program.

That said, the UOL BD is actually heavier in some pretty important stuff -- the philosophy and theology courses, for example... and biblical languages. In fact, biblical languages aren't even a part of the Southwest program... which could be seen by many as a real impediment. It's the Southwest program's concentration on practical, everyday, running-a-church type stuff; and its going a little light on theological/philosophical stuff, that made me suggest that it would probably take an MTh from SATS (or someplace else) on top of the Southwest BA to make the two of them, combined, potentially (and I emphasize the word "potentially") MDiv-equivalent in the eyes of at least some denominations (and darned few of them, I'd think, too).

Also -- and this is important, I think -- remember that the UK doesn't have the MDiv like the US does; and that a BD is typically the degree that gets one ordained over there. So it makes sense that the UK's BD would have more of an MDiv kinda' feel to it; and that it would have more theology and biblical languages, etc., than would the Southwest BA in Pastoral Studies.

 

My memory might be getting a bit foggy in my old age, but if I am remembering my old 1993-1994 catalog correctly, Faith Evangelical Lutheran Seminary www.faithseminary.edu is able to admit a limited number of persons without the bachelor's (usually experienced pastors) and award them the ThB on the way.

 

Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

Yes, if memory serves, I believe you're right about that. Faith, the thread-starter should know, is TRACS accredited; located in Tacoma, WA; and has Lutheran roots. In fact, I think it's still called "Faith Evangelical Lutheran Seminary" on the TRACS web site; and it calls itself that at the very bottom of each of its web pages. The Lutheran group that started it, the thread-starter should know, is one of the small Lutheran spin-offs (from the mainstream Lutheran bodies such as LC-MS, ELCA or WELS); and it's particularly conservative (believing in bible inerrancy, etc.). But it seems to be a pretty decent little seminary if all that's okay with you.

And, sure enough, there it is, right on Faith's admissions page, under "Categories of Admission":

• Mature Student Admission: Although the standard prerequisite for study at the seminary is an accredited baccalaureate degree, the seminary has a mature student provision for those who have not obtained a bachelor’s degree, yet have the desire and ability to study at the graduate level. Mature students must be at least 30 years of age and pursuing the requirements of a Christian ministry. The policy for mature students states that only a limited portion of the student body may be admitted in this category. The seminary does not wish to discourage such applications, but the applicant needs to know that these conditions limit the number of mature students we are able to admit each year. Applications will be assessed according to 1) the availability of space, and 2) the relative merits of each application.
  
  Note: Mature students who do not possess general education or introductory bible courses in their academic background will be required to complete a series of undergraduate general education courses (minimum 36 hours) and introductory bible courses (minimum 15 hours) before they are admitted officially to any graduate program.
  
  Students accepted under mature status are classified as probational students. There will be an open review of the student's progress at the end of the first year of study for the purpose of granting permission for continuation.
  
  Students possessing a non-accredited baccalaureate degree, or who have an undergraduate GPA not meeting minimum standards will be included in the same category, although they do not fall under the same age restrictions.

So, there you go, THEGOALIE. Ted remembered a pretty good one that might admit you without your bachelors.

 

Re: Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

Again my memory may be getting a bit foggy in my old age, but I seem to remember a fairly well-regarded non-denominational (to be read: "closet Baptist") seminary formerly known as Northwest Graduate School of the Ministry in Kirkland, Washington, offering a similar "mature student admissions" policy. Wasn't there a thread here re NWGSM getting a new owner and a new name?

 

Re: Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

Yes, Faith Evangelical Lutheran Seminary was founded in 1969 by Lutherans Alert - National, now known as the Conservative Lutheran Association.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Seminary without bachelor degree?

Your memory serves you well, Ted. The seminary is now called Bakke Graduate University. The last paragraph below describes exactly what you are referring to:

http://www.nwgs.edu/academics/programs/mts

Master of Theological Studies
Program Description
The Master of Theological Studies (MTS) degree is designed to enhance the skills and knowledge of individuals engaged in some aspect of Christian Ministry. The program provides a broad foundation in biblical, theological and historical studies. The MTS degree also addresses global and urban perspectives and allows each student to focus in an area of specialization. The MTS offers eight areas of specialization:

The Emerging Church
Urban Youth
Congregation Revitalization
Preaching and Communication
Organizational Leadership
Spiritual Formation
Global Mission
Community Development

The degree may be structured around the student’s ministry needs. Course offerings are structured in four semester credit hour modules which include the following:
1. Reading and other ministry-related assignments to be completed by the student before attending the on-campus sessions;
2. On-campus sessions conducted for five days which include approximately 30-clock hours of intensive classroom learning experiences and occasional field trips. In some cases a field experience will take the place of on-campus sessions.
3. A course project which relates course content to the student’s ministry experience.
The MTS program concludes with a thesis or final project, which focuses on a contemporary theological issue relevant to the church or a topic related to the student’s area of concentration in the MTS program.

MTS Admission Requirements

Standard requirements for regular admission to the MTS include a baccalaureate degree or its equivalent and involvement in ministry. The applicant will generally be involved in ministry, although students seeking understanding and training in ministry may be accepted when there is evidence of sufficient maturity.

Applicants not holding a baccalaureate degree or its equivalent may apply to the MTS program under Special Student Admission Status. Only a limited number of applicants will be admitted under the Special Student Admission Status. Requirements for this status include a minimum of five years of continuous ministry experience, a paper describing a good rationale for the student not having had access to higher education (e.g., religion, culture, geographic, etc.), and an assessment to be conducted by a school official. The assessment involves an extra cost, which is the responsibility of the student. The assessment may determine extra courses required for the student outside of the degree requirements as stated in this catalog.

 

Thanks for all the replies! I haven't been around here to check the last few days, and I am surprised at the number of quality responses.

I've been looking at a couple of different programs, and came across Trinity Theology which I found interesting, and it looked like it could be a good study program, but I sent an email to both addresses listed on their website, and have not received an email back. So, that's a definite red flag.

It also looks like South African Theological Seminary, and Nations University have good programs as well. I still have some detective work to do in regards to ATS and TRACS schools as well.

However, I will say that I'm excited about the options that are out there, and while finding the right school will not be simple it will be a lot easier than I expected.

Thanks again for all the help!

Matt

 

This might fit the bill:

Trinity College of the Bible Theological Seminary

On their website

They have portfolio assessment and take transfer credits. Tuition for Bachelors is $150 a credit. There is info on financial aid, and they have a section on accelerating a degree. Somewhere on the site I read you have to take 32 hours with them.

 

Here's another one -- Piedmont Bible College -- Spurgeon School of Online Education. Accredited by TRACS

Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Studies

This one is for Pastors.

They also have Biblical Studies for Christian Service, Youth work, Teachers, Missionaries, Musicians. There are also associate degrees.

Tuition is $295 credit hour.