Trying to get into RA MS or PhD program with DETC BS

Hello,

I am brand new to the forum, so I want to take a second and thank everybody for reading my post. I am finishing up my BS in Computer Engineering Technology from Grantham University (DETC accredited) and am beginning to apply to RA schools in southern California. I know there are countless threads on acceptability of online degrees, and of DETC degrees, but I was wondering if anybody has had any success getting into California schools with these degrees?

I have maintained a 3.8 GPA throughout my degree, and have recently taken the GRE for the first (and hopefully last) time. My scores on the GRE were 660 verbal and 750 quantitative.

I am trying for CalTech (a reach, I know), UC Irvine (also a reach), and Cal Poly Pomona. Does anybody know of any other good schools within an hour or so of LA? Preferably ones that will take a DETC degree? Also, any other advice, comments, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff

 

There are several online schools. Does it have to be a traditional school?

 

If there were accredited schools offered graduate degrees in Computer Science, I would consider those. Just to be clear, my ultimate goal is a PhD, so if I went to an online school for my MS, I might have the same problem, just a couple of years from now.

 

NCU offers an MBA / Computer Science. They are RA and may accept a DETC BS.

I am sure there are schools that offer an online MS in Compuer Science but I do not know the admission requirements.

 

DISTANCE LEARNING MASTER'S DEGREES IN COMPUTER SCIENCE

American College of Computer and Information Sciences www.accis.edu (BG15, 96)
University of Bradford www.brad.ac.uk (BG15, 176)
University of Calicut http://collegeskerala.com/calicut (BG15, 177)
California National University for Advanced Studies www.cnuas.edu (BG15, 100)
California State University Chico www.csuchico.edu (BG15, 101)
University of Colorado Boulder www.colorado.edu/CATECS (BG15, 136)
Colorado State University www.learn.colostate.edu (BG15, 106)
Columbia University www.cvn.columbia.edu (BG15, 106)
Columbus State University www.csuonline.edu (BG15, 107)
Edith Cowan University www.ecu.edu.au (BG15, 109)
Franklin University www.alliance.franklin.edu (BG15, 112)
University of Idaho www.uidaho.edu/evo (BG15, 137)
University of Illinois Urbana Champaign www.ivc.illinois.edu (BG15, 138)
Maharishi University of Management www.mum.edu (BG15, 162)
University of Massachusetts Amherst www.ecs.umass.edu/vip (BG15, 140)
University of Melbourne www.unimelb.edu.au (BG15, 140)
Mississippi State University www.distance.msstate.edu (BG15, 163)
National Technological University www.ntu.edu (BG15, 124)
University of New England www.une.edu.au (BG15, 141)
Nova Southeastern University www.nova.edu (BG15, 165)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute www.rsvp.rpi.edu (BG15, 129)
University of South Africa www.unisa.ac.za (BG15, 144)
South Bank University www.lbsu.ac.uk (BG15, 172)
University of Southern California www.usc.edu (BG15, 145)
Southern Methodist University http://www2.smu.edu/distance (BG15, 173)
Stanford University http://scpd.stanford.edu (BG15, 131)
University of Teesside www.tees.ac.uk (BG15, 181)
University of Texas www.telecampus.utsystem.edu (BG15, 147)
Touro University International www.tourou.edu (BG15, 134)

 

Nova Southeastern offers an MS and a PhD in Computer Science, both of which can be done via distance learning. Nova's MS program also allows for early admissions into their PhD program. The following is an excerpt from their Web page:

Early Admission into the Doctoral Program: Requirements for CISC Students

This option provides the opportunity for master’s students in computer science to earn the Ph.D. in computer science or computer information systems in a shorter time. In addition to the requirements for early admission specified in the section General Information on Master’s Degree Programs, the student must have completed CISC 610 Programming Languages, CISC 615 Design and Analysis of Algorithms, CISC 630 Compiler Design Theory, and CISC 640 Operating Systems Theory and Design.

Here is the link.

On a side note...the university I got my MS from , Florida Tech, offers a DL MS in computer science. It's probably the only one not on Ted's list.

Florida Institute of Technology

 

Another place to look is here.

I am unsure about the acceptability of your DETC accredited degree. However, to increase the odds of being accepted into a PhD program you need to complete a reasearch oriented (i.e. thesis-based) masters degree. Nova and NCU aren't too picky about such things but most top schools will be. Since I'm guessing that having a DETC accredited degree will be a negative on your application you need to make sure you shine in other ways. On my web site you will only find a few schools who offer a MSCS degree but who will also let you take the thesis-option if you are a distance learning student. All of the schools I applied to for my masters degree will let you do a thesis:

1) Columbia University
2) University of Florida
3) Florida Atlantic University

There are others but you will need to investigate the programs you might be interested in.

Good luck.

 

Rather than point you to specific schools, which others are certainly more capapble of doing than I am, I'd just offer you a bit of advice. Don't be limited by what each school's literature says. Graduate school is very much about negotiation. Ask. Ask again. Ask someone else. Find the school you want and locate a "hero" working there who will carry your banner. Be proud of both your accomplishment and the school (Grantham), and don't be shy about telling people. Tell them what you've done. Tell them why you chose both Grantham and distance learning. Tell them why you're the one they should admit. Tell them about what you will contribute, not just take away.

Tell 'em all, and one (or more) will listen. Good luck.

 

FIT's web site specifically says that Computer Science is NOT offered by distance learning. However, they have recently I think made a MS degree in Computer Information Systems available by distance learning.

Take a look here and notice the asterisk next to the Computer Science major code. Then scroll down to the bottom and you will see:

*Program is not available via distance learning.

 

Okay, first off, you are correct that there are many RA B&M schools that tend to have rather snarky attitudes about DL and DETC. That said, there are many RA B&M schools that are accepting of DL and DETC. One might have checked out various RA B&M grad schools and asked their policies. before enrolling in a DETC and DL institution. One could still contact the schools you are interested in and find out their policies. You say you wish an example of someone who actually got into a California grad school with a distance learning degree. Perhaps someone out there can correct me if my memory is getting a bit dotty in my old age but I seem to recall my old 1997 faculty field roster from California State University, Dominguez Hills' Master of Arts in Humanities External Degree Program listing one certain Joanne Zitelli, Professor of Literature and former Program Director, as having an MA from International College (a good but nevertheless unaccredited distance learning school in California) and a PhD from University of California at Los Angeles. That said, she did once advise me that going from DL MA to B&M PhD could be a difficult sell.

It often helps to get yourself a champion in the department wherein you are desirous of admissions. With grad school admissions, the professors usually get who the professors want. One of my old City U marketing profs once advised me that the best way to get a mentor is to just climb under his (her) wing.

Gosh! A 3.8 GPA and a 1410 on your GRE is certainly nothing to sneeze at. That said, quite often, at the top-flight schools, your scores for your GPAs and GREs matter less in absolute terms and more in relative terms. In other words, while some schools extend admissions offers to everybody who has, say, a 3.0 GPA and a 1000 on the GRE, when you are dealing with top-flight schools, they usually take, say, the top 20 applicants or the top 20% (or the top 5%) of applicants, with the result that no GPA or GRE guarantees admission.

It is always advisable in grad school applications to apply to at least one incredibly prestigious ruling-class super-brain school, just to see if you could have gotten in. It is also advisable to apply for one open-admissions "safety" school, just in case everything else goes to pot. And, of course, apply for a few mid-range schools that are reasonable considering one's GPA and GRE.

Welcome to the board and welcome to the hazing ritual known as grad school!

 

This is great advice. Also, the new CHEA HETA transfer alliance database may be helpful. Schools listed there are more open to the idea of accepting applicants with DETC or other NA credentials. http://www.chea.org/heta/default.asp

 

RESIDENTIAL MASTER'S DEGREES IN COMPUTER SCIENCE IN CALIFORNIA

University of California Berkeley www.berkeley.edu
University of California Davis www.ucdavis.edu
University of California Irvine www.uci.edu
University of California Los Angeles www.ucla.edu
University of California Riverside www.ucr.edu
University of California San Diego www.ucsd.edu
University of California Santa Barbara www.ucsb.edu
University of California Santa Cruz www.ucsc.edu
California Polytechnic State University San Luis Obispo www.calpoly.edu
California State Polytechnic University Pomona www.csupomona.edu
California State University Chico www.csuchico.edu
California State University Fresno www.csufresno.edu
California State University Fullerton www.fullerton.edu
California State University Hayward www.csuhayward.edu
California State University Long Beach www.csulb.edu
California State University Northridge www.csun.edu
California State University Sacramento www.csus.edu
California State University San Bernadino www.csusb.edu
California State University San Marcos http://ww2.csusm.edu
California Institute of Technology www.caltech.edu
Claremont Graduate University www.cgu.edu
Loyola Marymount University www.lmu.edu
San Diego State University www.sdsu.edu
University of San Francisco www.usfca.edu
San Francisco State University www.sfsu.edu
San Jose State University www.sjsu.edu
Santa Clara University www.scu.edu
University of Southern California www.usc.edu
Stanford University www.stanford.edu

 

Cal Tech only admits a small percentage of its applicants and looks for individuals of exceptional promise. I think that they really like undergraduate research experience and stuff like that.

UCI is similar, but not quite as selective.

There's no harm in applying though, as long as you are realistic about your chances.

With a DETC DL degree, your best bet might be one of the California State Universities.

As far as I know, the CSU's require that graduate applicants have undergraduate degrees from "accredited" institutions. That isn't defined, but apparently it's usually interpreted to mean RA. So there's a chance (dunno how big) that some of them might accept a DETC degree. Just applying to a CSU and hoping is plan A, I guess.

If they don't buy the DETC degree, there's plan B. Several years ago, and as far as I know today, the CSU system had a small-print special admissions procedure for individuals with 'non-accredited' degrees. It went like this:

If the applicants don't qualify for graduate admissions, they can still apply as an undergraduate. Then the students may petition their prospective graduate department for special consideration.

The department looks at the student's previous education. If they find it credible (and DETC accredited programs obviously aren't mills), the department assigns one or two semesters of upper division undergraduate work of the department's choosing. If the student passes these classes with B's or better, he or she can petition the department head and some assorted deans for a transfer to graduate status.

If they let you do this, plan B would mean that you are looking at perhaps 12 units of additional work, plus the hassle of having to sell yourself a little. (But no more than you would have to do to get into Cal Tech.)

So my suggestion would be to go talk to the departments that you are interested in at Cal Poly Pomona, Northridge, Fullerton, Long Beach and/or CSULA. Tell them about your DETC degree. If they express reservations, ask them specifically about the special admissions procedures. My guess is that at least one of them will consider you.

 

Thanks for your suggestions everybody, it definitely gives me something to think about.

Unfortunately, at the time I started my education, I was in the Navy and moving around a lot, so I (probably mistakenly) thought that a DETC degree was my only way to go.

I'll certainly take all the advice into consideration, and let you know how of any updates.

Does anybody else have any advice?

 

Generalizing what Rich Douglas said,

If you think you are aiming high, it's important to make it personal: Let the people making the decision know that you're YOU, not one of thousands of data sets, and that you're someone they'd really like to have around and work with for 4+ years. For some teachers, a DL completed during military service would be a Gold Star, not a Black Mark, on your Permanent Record.

Show them you know who they are, too. My experience is in the humanities, but I imagine the department faculty has an admissions committee with a chair or other persons willing to meet with prospective students. Find out about the person you'll talk to, their research interests and publications--or look up someone whose interests you share.

Get together a portfolio of prior work that will interest your potential advocate and bring it along. If you can get into a conversation that neither of you wants to stop when time is up, you're in great shape.

Again, no knowledge about your field; you should know more about this than I, but some doctoral programs essentially recruit bachelor graduates and maybe tag them with a master's partway through the program. Others recruit master's grads externally.

If you are shooting for a doctorate, you may want to get a brick and mortar master's first with an eye on the second type of program if it exists in your field. If it doesn't, you _may_ want to spend some time in a well-known though not necessarily hyperselective master's program and try to transfer into a doctoral program. This will help you [irony] rehabilitate [/irony] your bachelor's degree in the eyes of those still unfamiliar with DL. It will give you a chance to accumulate references from teachers who know you face-to-face and will speak up for you later on to colleagues they may know. They can put your bachelor's degree in the context of the work you've done with them.

But it's very important before setting out to find out what the path of study actually is for students in the programs you want to pursue. In some fields, a terminal masters could be an impediment to doctoral studies. Or your master's courses might not match up with the offerings in the doctoral program you want.

I think it's helpful to find all this arcane stuff out and make your first move with a clear idea of what your last moves will be.

To sum up, your distinctive record may make you a risky candidate for some, but an interesting and appealing one for others. And those people would probably be the ones you'd like to study with. (i.e. the _best_ program for you may not be the most prestegious-- _even_if_ you are accepted into it.)

Apologies for the stuff you already know, and good luck.