City & Guilds - Engineering

**morganplus8** · 06-23-2005 04:10 PM

I quit my job as a Corporate Engineer for one of Canada's largest manufacturing distribution companies. I haven't decided where I will work next at this point. I just want to relax for a year and think through my options. Education is one area I'm fond of and might consider teaching . The other choice is consulting in which case I don't care where my credentials come from as long as they include an Engineering title on the CV.

I have done extensive work in the U.S. and would consider something South of the border too. My options are wide open at this point.

I haven't picked a thesis topic yet (for UNISA/DCom) and my second choice is the DBA/PhD at NCU.

Plenty to think about over the summer! I would like to challenge for the MCGI at IIE this fall.

That's it!
MP

**Lerner** · 03-03-2006 10:47 PM

Originally posted by morganplus8
Hi everyone!

I haven't heard much about the C & G prospects for those trying to further their advancement in Engineering in North America. I have read every post on this site re" C & G in the past but I was wondering what has become of those who tried to advance their engineering careers via this route?

I applied as a qualified engineer to the C & G and was given a LCGI diploma, I was also told to consider challenging for the MCGI because I hold a Masters degree as well (MBA ). I was wondering what else I could do with the LCGI in the US or abroad, has anyone managed to promote themselves to a professional qualification or perhaps into a Masters of Engineering course?

I'm looking for anything new happening at C & G!

Thanks,
MP

A friend with LCGI diploma - US AS degree equivalent was accepted in to Hawaii Pacific University .
HPU fully recognized his LCGI award.

American Society of Certified Engineering Technicians / Technologists recognizes the award for Certified / Registered Member status.

Learner

**morganplus8** · 03-04-2006 06:23 PM

Thanks for your post Learner,

If you could tell me more about your friend, how did he acquire his LCGI and what is/was his educational background?

I'm contacting the ASCET group on Monday to learn more about registration and additional possibilities.

Thanks,
MP

**Lerner** · 03-04-2006 10:26 PM

My friend grew up in another country, there he studied electtronics
and computing from 10th grade to 12th grade and he graduated wiith high school certificate from vocational highschool.

he joined Air force in his country and studied as a cadet almost for a year ( 13th grade ) he was qualified as a Technician in telecom systems, later in the military he served 5 years advancing in ranks, managerial responsibilities and qualifications of technicians, he sttudied short and long term classes to get higher grade - level of technician.

After discharge all he had was the technician - Air force diplomas and 5 years experience with letters of recommendation.

He had taken some additional classes from open university and undergraduate certificate in micro computers .

After that he was in the corporate high tech world, working as an Field engineer , Systems Engineer and passed many company based training, certifications etc.

Realizing some 10 years after the discharge that the competition is harder and not having formal AS, BS degree holds him back wile on the other side he achieved a practice manager level in professional practice - consulting company.

He applied to City and Guilds for LCGI in electronics and management.

C&GI requested as a pass in order to be even considered o provide as an entry an NVQ 3 or equivalent education .

My friend had to send all his educational certificates etc to NARIC
UK, after long time he was awarded with NARIC evaluation as having NVQ3 equivalent education .

this was sufficient for entry in to consideration for LCGI by C&GI.
He applied and got the LCGI ( level 4 in UK - NVQ 4 as a Full Technolgical Certtiificate or Diploma).

Later he obtained a brochure of equivalent classes for such a
designation, he also applied to City and Guilds for Full Technological Diploma. - this is a minimum requirement for IEng by IIE UK were he is registered as IEng.

Now he had his LCGI evaluated by NACES member agency with other certificates he applied to HPU and was accepted as mature
entry in to two final years of Bachelors degree program.

As far as ASCET they list on their web site the certifying awarding bodies that they recognize and City and Guilds is one of them.

**Lerner** · 03-04-2006 10:49 PM

Additional info

Academic recognition
To help candidates undertaking City & Guilds Diploma or Advanced Diploma awards to proceed to
higher education in the UK, City & Guilds makes every effort to ensure that maximum recognition is
given to their qualifications. City & Guilds has, therefore, negotiated with universities the recognition of
the Diploma and Advanced Diploma qualifications as meeting the levels of skills, knowledge and
understanding required for entry and exemption from parts of relevant degree courses.
British universities increasingly operate modular degree programmes which enable candidates to gain
exemptions from parts of the courses which they have already covered. A system of credit rating
operates. Our Advanced Diploma awards generally receive a credit rating of 120 units. Candidates
interested in progressing onto higher education in the UK should contact the universities directly or make
contact through the British Council. Please ask for our lists of university recognition for specific
qualifications.

Universities outside the UK

In general terms, and for the purposes of recognition, an LCGI or FTC/, Advanced Technician Diploma award from City
& Guilds can be equated with an Associate Degree. A similar level of recognition is given by some UK
universities for the two awards. For further details please contact the individual organisation.
Representative universities and higher education institutions outside the UK include:
Hawaii Pacific University
164 Bishop Street
Suite 200
Honolulu
HI 96813
USA
C&G awards with a grade of 'credit' or higher.
Inter-University
Institute of Macau
ITUM
RUA Central No 111
Macau
853 970323/4/5
853 970327;
http://www.dislogo.ucp.pt/IIUM
Pacific Western University
1210 Anahi Street
Department 137
Honolulu
HI 96814-4922
Tel: 800 423 3244 x137; uk - 0800 960 413
Fax: 310 471 6456
http://www.pwu.com
Dean - Academic Affairs
Perth Institute of Business and Technology
Perth Western Australia
Claremont Campus
Edith Cowan University
Goldsworth Road
Claremont
Western Australia 6010
The Perth Institute of Business and Technology will
consider holders of the City & Guilds LCGI, Technician
Diplomas and Advanced Technician Diplomas for
entry into their Degree linked programmes. Contact
the Perth Institute for details.
The IRI Group and City & Guilds International

have an Asia-wide partnership that will allow
graduates of City & Guilds programmes with
appropriate experience to complete an
undergraduate or graduate degree. IRI is working
with Charles Sturt University, Australia, to make
an MBA programme available to Asia. The MBA
has been jointly designed by Charles Sturt
University for the Asian environment and can be
completed in 16 months.
City & Guilds graduates keen to pursue the CSU
MBA , or the Bachelor of Business, Bachelor of
Information Technology and Bachelor of Business
Studies programmes should contact:

Recognition of City & Guilds Awards in United States and Canada
There are many instances in which holders of City & Guilds awards make successful use of their
qualifications in employment in the United States and Canada.
In general terms, and for the purposes of recognition, an Advanced Technician Diploma award from City
& Guilds can be equated with an Associate Degree. Additionally it is known that City & Guilds
qualifications in subject areas such as Teaching and Culinary Arts (Chef) are recognised in the US, and
individuals make successful careers based on their qualifications. Within the traditional crafts, the City &
Guilds award in Creative Studies (Embroidery) is accredited for university course credits towards the US
bachelor's degree – exemplifying the level of recognition obtained in the US for City & Guilds Level 1
and Level 2 awards.
There are considerable differences between the pattern of vocational education and training in the United
States, and that prevalent in the United Kingdom and elsewhere in the world where use is made of City &
Guilds certification programmes. In addition City & Guilds, as a major international credentialing
organisation, certifies achievement in a wide variety of occupational areas and at different levels. As a
result it is difficult to make generalizations regarding the recognition that will be given to individual
certificate holders. They may need to apply to state or local agencies as well as professional associations
to receive recognition for certification and a license to practice. For these reasons it is often helpful for an
evaluator to review an individual's achievements in order to establish an equivalence for continuing
education or employment purposes in the United States.
The organisations listed below have indicated familiarity with City & Guilds certification, through
existing clients. They are supported by City & Guilds through the provision of continuing and updated
information about its awards. It is the responsibility of the individual contacting these organisations,
however, to determine the appropriateness of the service they provide.
American Society of Certified Engineering
Technicians
ASCET Office
PO Box 1348
Flowery Branch
GA 30542
USA
ASCET recognizes City & Guilds certification in
engineering disciplines for Certified Member status.
CCTT gives credit for City & Guilds technician and
other awards, covering engineering and construction
subjects, towards its own examinations and
membership categories.
The Canadian Council of Technicians and
Technologists (CCTT)
2-285 McCleod Street
Ottawa K2P 1A1
Canada
The organisations listed below have indicated
familiarity with City & Guilds certification, through
existing clients. They are supported by City & Guilds
through the provision of continuing and updated
information about its awards. It is the responsibility
of the individual contacting these organisations,
however, to determine the appropriateness of the
service they provide.
Educational Evaluators International Inc,
P O Box 5397
Los Alamitos
CA 90721
USA
Senior Evaluator
World Education Services Inc,
P O Box 745
Old Chelsea Station
New York
NY 10113-0745
USA
Evaluation Services Inc,
P O Box 1455
Albany
NY 12201
USA
Chairman
National Association of Credential Evaluation
Services,
C/o ECE
P O Box 17499
Milwaukee
WI 53217-0499
USA

Level Qualification Equivalent to
7 Fellowship (FCGI) Doctorate
6 Membership (MCGI) Masters' degree
5 Graduateship (GCGI)/Associateship (ACGI) - NVQ 5 1st degree - BS BA etc.
4 Licentiateship (LCGI) Full Technological Certificate/Full
Technological Diploma, Advanced Technician Diploma - NVQ 4
1st year of UK university - 2 years US University.
bachelors' degre Evidence of successful,
recent work experience
Managerial experience

3 - Advanced Diploma, Technician Diploma, Pitman Qualifications Professional/Level 3
NVQ 3
GCE advanced level
University entrance
Supervisory skills
2 - Diploma, Technician Certificate, Pitman Qualifications Advanced/Level 2
NVQ 2 - Able to work independently
in a particular job

1- Certificate, School Leaving Qualification
Pitman Qualifications Intermediate
NVQ 1
Preparation for work
Can work with supervision
Entry
Pitman Qualifications Essential
First qualification for life
long learning

Advertisement

**morganplus8** · 03-05-2006 11:14 AM

Lerner!

I'm reading each word you have written very carefully here, I have a question about this statement:

"Later he obtained a brochure of equivalent classes for such a
designation, he also applied to City and Guilds for Full Technological Diploma. - this is a minimum requirement for IEng by IIE UK were he is registered as IEng.

Now he had his LCGI evaluated by NACES member agency with other certificates he applied to HPU and was accepted as mature
entry in to two final years of Bachelors degree program."

Where did he obtain the brochure of equivalence for classes, did he submit this brochure and his LCGI to the NACES group for approval and did they only look at the brochure and his LCGI diploma when making their report? I have the LCGI too, got it from NRP equivalence of my educational background. I would like to challenge for a IEng position next and I'm wondering what the best way is to proceed. What is the requirement for a Full Tech. Diploma? What did he have to submit aside from the LCGI?

Thanks!

I have filled out my application for ASCET and Emailed them for payment, thanks to you!

**morganplus8** · 03-05-2006 01:16 PM

Quick update:

I've just received confirmation from the General Manager that I will be "inducted into the ASCET, based upon my LCGI title, there will be no problem", this is great news!

**Lerner** · 03-05-2006 05:38 PM

Originally posted by morganplus8
Quick update:

I've just received confirmation from the General Manager that I will be "inducted into the ASCET, based upon my LCGI title, there will be no problem", this is great news!

Congratulations!, did you apply for Certified member grade?

I sent your questions to my friend.
From what I remember is LCGI is equivalent to Full Technological Diploma - this is International Vocational Qualification with defined corriculum and requirements.
the same is for Advanced Technician Diploma they all are on Level 4 or 4+.

You don't get GPA but pass / fail results and holding LCGI its like having pass on all the classes for the FTC/D.

I will have more info once Yefim writes back to me or I talk to him.

Now what I called broshure is actually official C&GI Syllabus for what this programme consists.

Example Electronics Engineering Technology

Syllabus areas:
• Engineering fundamentals
• Electrical and electronic applications
• Electrical and electronic assignments
• Computer aided communication
• Electrical power
• Electronics
• Advanced electrical principles
• Control systems and applications
• Distribution and utilisation of electrical energy
• Generation and supply of electrical energy
• Micro-electronic circuits and systems
• Electrical plant and equipment
• Advanced mathematics
Method of assessment is by:
Multiple choice and short answer question papers plus practical assignments.
Note: The Full Technological Diploma (FTD) is available to those who successfully
complete this programme (or the appropriate mix of 8030 and 8030 (2000)).

LCGI = FTD they are quivalents on the same level.

FTD and HND are good for entry in to IEng.

A Full Technological Diploma (FTD) is only awarded on the basis of City & Guilds new Technician
awards and equal to lCGI. These can easily be recognised because all the awards include the titles Diploma and Advanced
Diploma.

The completed application form and all attachments should be addressed to:

Manager
International Operations (FTD)
City & Guilds (WS1)
1 Giltspur Street
London
EC1A 9DD
United Kingdom

Full Technological Diploma Application Form

INSTRUCTIONS: Please complete this form in CAPITAL LETTERS IN INK to apply for a Full
Technological Diploma. The appropriate fee must accompany each request for a Diploma. Please read the
following notes before completing this form.

CANDIDATE NAME (Write your name in CAPITAL LETTERS as you wish it to appear on the Diploma.)

ADDRESS (This is the address to which the Diploma will be sent.)
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....
.................................................. .................................................. Country ........................................

Date of birth Please tick appropriate box
_ _ / _ _ / _ _ Male
Female
I am applying for an FTD in the subject stated below.

I am entitled to the above Full Technological Diploma due to success in the following

Title of Award Level Date of Award Name of Centre where examination was
taken
DIPLOMA
ADVANCED
DIPLOMA

I enclose
1 Photostats of Diploma and Advanced Diploma Certificates.
2 Portfolio of Evidence including

2.1 Summary of relevant work experience.
2.2 Letter from each employer confirming claimed work experience.
2.3 Curriculum Vitae (CV).
2.4 Details of two professional referees (Name, Address, Status) whom I understand will be contacted.
2.5 Details of courses or other professional development/training undertaken (if appropriate)
.
3 A cheque/banker’s draft for £75 (pounds sterling) payable to City & Guilds.
Signature .................................................. ............................. Date .................................................
.

**Lerner** · 03-05-2006 06:04 PM

AACRAO- Evaluation of International Educational Credentials

This evaluation is for: Further Education , Employment, and Professional
Licensure.

"The applicant received membership in the Institution of Incorporated Engineers in 2004, and received the title of Incorporated Engineer . Education , training, and experience are required in order to obtain membership as an Incorporated Engineer .

Registration as an Incorporated Engineer is a professional qualification, and is comparable to that of a person licensed to practice engineering in the United States."

"The applicant also submitted a Graduateship from the City & Guilds of London Institute. The City & Guilds of London Institute is an independent body incorporated by royal charter in the United Kingdom.

It offers a wide range of technical examinations, which, in the United Kingdom, are equated to academic qualifications. The Graduateship award is equated to the National Vocational Qualification Level 5.

For employment purposes in the United Kingdom , the Graduateship is considered comparable to a bachelor's degree from British universities.

Acceptance of this qualification as comparable to a US bachelor's
degree would depend on institutional policies of US institutions
regarding recognition of work experience and experiental learning."

"Recommended level of study in the U.S.- Master's as exception to standards."

Certainly confirms the status and potential utility of both the IEng and the GCGLI qualifications - on the world scene.

**Lerner** · 03-06-2006 04:08 AM

The Engineering Council (UK) Examinations
LCGI
Advanced Technician Diploma
Technician Diploma
Holders of a LCGI or an Advanced Technician Diploma are eligible to
register at the Graduate Diploma level of the Engineering
Council Examinations.
Holders of a Technician Diploma are eligible to register at
Certificate level.

Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE)
LCGI
Advanced Technician Diploma
Technician Diploma
The Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) welcomes
applications for membership from holders of a LCGI or an Advanced
Technician Diploma or a Technician Diploma.
Subsequently, those who apply for registration with the
EC(UK), Individual Case Procedure (ICP) is applied. This
requires that the intending registrant provides details of
the content of the courses undertaken and the
performance or outcome attained, in each case.
A holder of a Technician Diploma is normally eligible to
become a member of IIE (MIIE), and may subsequently
register as an Engineering Technician (EngTech) once
competence and commitment requirements have
been satisfied.

A holder of a LCGI or an Advanced Technician Diploma is also
normally eligible to become a member of IIE (MIIE), and
partially satisfies the educational base requirement for
registration as an Incorporated Engineer . A holder of this
award who undertakes further learning - equivalent to the
final year of a relevant Bachelor’s degree - will be eligible to
register as an Incorporated Engineer (IEng), subject to ICP.
A successful Professional Review of competence and
commitment is also required.
Note:
Accredited qualifications do not require the holder to be
assessed through ICP. However, under the terms of its
license from the EC(UK), IIE cannot accredit qualifications in
isolation, only at the invitation of a college or University
where the qualifications are delivered. Negotiations have
also started in an effort to agree a suitable set of criteria to
make the accreditation of City & Guilds awards much more
straightforward.
Institution of Incorporated Engineers
Savoy Hill House
Savoy Hill
London
WC2R 0BS
England UK
T +44 (0) 20 7836 3357
F +44 (0) 20 7497 9006
www.iie.org.uk

Recognition List
Awards and IVQs in Telecommunication Systems
(2730) Jan 2006 - EU Bulgaria

**morganplus8** · 03-06-2006 06:44 AM

Hello again Lerner!

You certainly are up to speed on this program! I did apply for the Certified Member status and decided to send the "General Manager" a quick Email to ask him/her if I could pay via VISA as I didn't want to gamble on a money order if I was not eligable for Cert. Member status. To my surprise, he has little to do on a Sunday like me and he responded right away with a "no problem", that I would be inducted into the membership as "certified".

This is great news and my member dues cover 16 months too, as my timing couldn't be better, re: their fiscal yearend.

I would like to know more about how your friend managed to get a copy of the curriculum and a statement of "pass" so that I could send this information off to the IIE. I think I understood that you needed to show some background on the LCGI in order to receive IEng status. Not sure if I have this right or not! Anyway, I would like to fill out the IEng forms and send them in ASAP to see if I can convert my LCGI to IEng soon. Do I have to obtain a FTD from C&G and then apply this against the IEng challenge?

Thanks for all of your help, much appreciated!

MP

**Lerner** · 03-06-2006 04:30 PM

my friend will be flying to London for his GCGI interview.

the additional classes he took at Open university helped him to qualify for IEng.

Now he is at HPU 3ed year Undergrad degree program even if he gets his GCGI. he wants to gain new knowladge and enjoy the university life in Hawaii.

IIE is merging with IEE to form IET on March 31 so you may want to write them and ask what should you do.

I think your canadian credential may be all you need pluss the LCGI

once Yefim provides additional info I will post it here.

Advertisement

**Lerner** · 03-06-2006 07:28 PM

LCGI is comparible and on the same level as FTC
City & Guilds Full Technological Certificate

This is taken from IIE web site

http://www.iie.org.uk/becoming/index...page=987657333

Academic Requirements

To meet the educational base requirements for IEng registration, the exemplifying qualification is an accredited IEng degree as shown on the EC (UK) website.

Other qualifications which can be considered include:
City & Guilds Full Technological Certificate
BSc/BEng/ Open University Degrees: profile requirements
Partially accredited HNC/D + further learning
HNC/ HND/ TEC Higher
Engineering Council Exams
Associate of Mining (Electrical & Mechanical Engineers )
Joint Committee HNC/D
BBC 'C' Course combined with Part 2 C&G Certificate
BBC 'C' Course combined with National Certificate
Professional Experience

Applicants for registration as an Incorporated Engineer will need to demonstrate competence to perform technical activities in a wide range of complex and non-routine tasks with substantial personal autonomy. They may also be sufficiently experienced to develop others in that technical activity. Applicants will be required to complete a Professional Review including interview. The time taken to achieve this level of competence may vary considerably between applicants. As a guideline, it is unlikely that an adequate range of training and experience will be acquired in less than three years.

Download full competence and commitment statements for Incorporated Engineer registration.
Alternative Routes to Registration

The Sydney Accord is an agreement between signatory countries to recognize academic awards for those candidates seeking registration as an Incorporated Engineer or equivalent within any of the territories within the Accord.

The Technical Report Route (TRR) is an alternative route to registration as an Incorporated Engineer for those who do not possess the exemplifying academic awards but have gained the competence and commitment through their experience to compensate for the shortfall in academic requirements and can demonstrate knowledge to degree level.

IEng is vocational/professional qualification its not an academic degree but a qualification on the level of Bachelors degree.

In some countries the vocational qualification may be more important for employment purposes than the degree.
But in my view they go together and studying for degree and earning professional/vocational qualifications is the winning formula.
Many UK universities offer qualifications during the learners path tho a degree, so students are encouraged to apply for lCGI wile they are in their second year in university.

Learner

**Lerner** · 03-09-2006 10:23 PM

By the way do you know what is your level in national Qualification Framework UK.

NQF was revised with additional levels added - 1 to 8 now.

Level 4 and level 5 were extended.

For example GCGI is first honors degree comparable in UK - in
NQF it is level 6H - H - honors.

LCGI - level 4 is now I think level 5 of NQF I - Intermediate - Foundation Degree - AS comparable.

but actually LCGI and GCGI are more than just academic degrees equivalent qualifications they contain a Training and Professional Experience in addition to Academic Education .

This is why they are called Sr Awards and respected by the Employers and Universities.

**JamesK** · 03-09-2006 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Lerner
By the way do you know what is your level in national Qualification Framework UK.

NQF was revised with additional levels added - 1 to 8 now.

Level 4 and level 5 were extended.

For example GCGI is first honors degree comparable in UK - in
NQF it is level 6H - H - honors.

LCGI - level 4 is now I think level 5 of NQF I - Intermediate - Foundation Degree - AS comparable.

but actually LCGI and GCGI are more than just academic degrees equivalent qualifications they contain a Training and Professional Experience in addition to Academic Education .

This is why they are called Sr Awards and respected by the Employers and Universities.

When you say "AS comparable", are you reffering to "Associate of Science" comparable or are you referring to "AS level ( ie halkf an A level) comparable"?

**Lerner** · 03-09-2006 11:40 PM

Originally posted by JamesK

When you say "AS comparable", are you reffering to "Associate of Science" comparable or are you referring to "AS level ( ie halkf an A level) comparable"?

Associate Degree in USA from RA university or college.

Universities outside the UK
In general terms, and for the purposes of recognition, level 4 award such as LCGI or Advanced Technician Diploma award from City & Guilds can be equated with an Associate Degree. A similar level of recognition is given by some UK
universities for the two awards. For further details please contact the individual organisation.

There are considerable differences between the pattern of vocational education and training in the United
States, and that prevalent in the United Kingdom and elsewhere in the world where use is made of City &
Guilds certification programmes. In addition City & Guilds, as a major international credentialing
organisation, certifies achievement in a wide variety of occupational areas and at different levels. As a
result it is difficult to make generalizations regarding the recognition that will be given to individual
certificate holders. They may need to apply to state or local agencies as well as professional associations
to receive recognition for certification and a license to practice. For these reasons it is often helpful for an
evaluator to review an individual's achievements in order to establish an equivalence for continuing
education or employment purposes in the United States.
The organisations listed below have indicated familiarity with City & Guilds certification, through
existing clients. They are supported by City & Guilds through the provision of continuing and updated
information about its awards. It is the responsibility of the individual contacting these organisations,
however, to determine the appropriateness of the service they provide.

Educational Evaluators International Inc,
P O Box 5397
Los Alamitos
CA 90721
USA
Senior Evaluator
World Education Services Inc,
P O Box 745
Old Chelsea Station
New York
NY 10113-0745
USA
Evaluation Services Inc,
P O Box 1455
Albany
NY 12201
USA
Chairman
National Association of Credential Evaluation
Services,
C/o ECE
P O Box 17499
Milwaukee
WI 53217-0499
USA

Thread: City & Guilds - Engineering

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Rate This Thread

Display

Re: City & Guilds - Engineering

Posting Permissions