A DL Nightmare

Hi,
I am reading posts from this forum since almost 6 months, and since I am interested in pursuing a PhD program in Computer Science (CS) by DL. I have read many posts attacking non-accredited (KWU, …etc.) and state-accredited universities (CCU, ..etrc.) because they said that there are many accredited universities that offer distance learning degrees (Touro, Nova, UNISA, ..etc.). Therefore, I believe on these posts and try to contact the accredited universities to pursue my study.
The first shock, was that there is no 100% nonresidential PhD program in CS. All the universities require you to travel there for few weeks at your expense. I thought there is a PhD program like that (in Business) of Touro Univ., but no such program. THEREFORE, there is no true DL program in CS (PhD), except the non-accredited and state-accredited universities.
The second shock, accepting that I should travel (although very difficult to me), I though about UNISA, which is really an ADMINSTRATIVE NIGHMARE, For almost a month now I just want a reply from them on how much I should pay and whether I can apply now. In there catalog they said you should contact the head of department before registration, I have send several emails for both him and his assistant but NO RESPONSE. I just WAIT and WAIT and WAIT for nothing. I do not know how one can study DL by this way (IGNORANCE).
The third shock, I found the university of Sunderland in UK, which starts a DL (supposedly) program. I was very happy but after reading a few lines I found their DL as a BIG JOKE? They want me to come to them 3 weeks / year, in addition, I should pay to two visits/ year of a staff member from them to come to see me. How much will that cost/year? Is this really DL?
Finally, I want to say for those of you that just laugh at non-accredited and state-accredited universities, laugh at your self since there is no alternative than these universities if one would like to complete his studies (as my case). So I will contact one of the CA-state universities in the near future, unless I found a Touro like program (which I doubt?!).

AL-Doori

 

al-doori,
maybe You should try an australian program,
have a look at www.une.edu.au www.csu.edu.au www.usq.edu.au
keep us informed and good luck
Friedrich

 

Hi,

I see you're on what I call (with apologies to Robert Ludlum) "The Timbuktu Torture" .... look anywhere in the world (even Timbutu) so long as it isn't quite legitmate, legal etc. etc. US state-licensed degrees - or at least as some would have you believe.

In case you're interested, my 100% non-resident US state-licensed PhD program was in Computer Science !

I also have several e-mail pals who are very satisfied computer professionals who did exactly the same thing - and learned a heck of a lot in their subject areas.

Of course, they weren't looking for faculty jobs in RA-type universities (couldn't afford the pay cut !)

Good luck,

Neil Hynd

 

Dr. Hynd fails to mention that Century University, the school from which he took his degree, is not accredited by a recognized agency in the United States. This lack of accreditation means that Century is not a recognized university here or anywhere else in the world. State licensing means the school has a legal right to operate. However, its credits and degrees have almost no acceptance in the higher education system.

It might also interest you to know that Century University has for 25 years advertised its accreditation by an unrecognized agency, while not mentioning that the agency is unrecognized. That accreditation has no meaning at all, except to fool people.

Also, Century University relocated from California because it could not meet that state's approval requirements. In the U.S., states license schools. Many do a poor job of it, and very bad schools take advantage of these inconsistencies by locating their operations in states with little or no oversight. New Mexico, Century's new home, was just such a state. It has since strengthened its standards, but "grandfathered" existing schools like Century.

Finally, Century University claims to have graduated more than 10,000 students. This is with a tiny faculty and administration, many of whom hold doctorates from....Century University!

Graduates of Century University may enjoy some benefit from their degrees in the working world, but it is almost certainly due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the decision-makers regarding the true nature of this school.

Rich Douglas

 

I’ve been there, I was looking in to a PhD in Information Systems or Computer Science and I explored the two options that you mentioned. Most of the Universities in the UK and Australia require a visit of two to three weeks a year at your expense. One option that I found 100% distance DL was the DBA in Information Systems at University of Southern Queensland. Notice that USQ has two kinds of doctorates in Information Systems, one is the DBA and the other is the PhD, the PhD has to be taken on Campus while the DBA is in DL. Deakin has a 100% DL Doctor of Technology program in Information Technology but the tuition fees for international students is like 3 or 4 times higher than local students. Charles Sturt has a distance PhD in Information Technology but its administration is as bad as UNISA, after one year telephone calls and emails I never got even an application form plus they could never tell me if it was 100% DL since they don’t know themselves.

 

I forgot to mention that Walden has a Phd in MIS ( I know it is not CS but may be close enough) but it is not cheap, may be more expensive than bringing the folks from Sunderland. North Central has a PhD in Applied Computer Science, it is suppose to be in the track of RA, but you would find the program very weak and not challenging at all (They ask you to take a C language course as a part of the PhD)

 

You wrote that there is no 100% non-residential PhD program in CS.If it is true,aren't you under the impression that it is a good thing?
In my opinion it's not serious to offer a entirely external PhD in a hard science.Despite an optimal learning environment many PhD students aren't able to finish their residential doctorate.
Before a student earns a serious PhD in CS,he will have met his advisor often,he will have met scholars during worshops or conferences,where people share their knowledge, and he will have published several papers in journals that are recognized by the scientific community.Admission to good graduate schools in computer science is highly competitive and computer science is a fast evolving science
Do you think you are able to earn a "real" PhD in computer science from your home or your workplace,with no attendance at all?

Out of topic.
In Italy we are luckier.If you have a master's degree(the Laurea),you're called Dottore,even if you don't have a doctorate.

 

Al-Doori, the unfortunate fact is that in order to earn a US regionally accredited doctorate, you have to "pay your dues" by attending some sort of residency, and I don't think that is especially a bad thing (the obvious exception is Touro's Business Ph.D., as you mentioned). Perhaps in a few years some RA universities will follow in TUI's footsteps, but it will most likely be a long road.

I don't think anyone here has laughed at state-approved degrees, just pointed out their shortcomings, of which there are many. If you are certain that a state-approved degree will meet your needs, then by all means go ahead with it. Unfortunately, I've heard stories of people who were initially satisfied with their state-approved degree, only to have it blow up in their face when they changed employers. It's a crap shoot at best.

Finally, if you do decide that a state-approved degree will meet your needs, make sure it is a reputable one. California Coast University (http:/www.calcoast.edu) is a good example, but I don't believe they offer Computer Science degrees. I'm not too up on state-approved schools, perhaps someone else could offer some suggestions. Best of luck.

Bruce

 

I guess that sometimes in our lives things don't work out exactly as we would like and we have to make compromises.

In your case, you could alter your plans, junk the idea of studying by DL, and look for a residential program. Or you could accept that you will have to make a few visits to your distance doctoral program, and then look for one where those requirements are least burdensome. Or you could grit your teeth and try again with UNISA. Or you could change your career direction from the science of computing to the business applications of computing, then choose 100% non-resident Touro.

I think that all of those options are a lot better than getting a non-accredited degree.

I don't know where you live, Al Doori. But from reading Neil Hynd's remarks, I gather that some Gulf nations such as the United Arab Emirates where he is located, either don't understand what American accreditation is or else they don't care. Apparently he has had some success there with his Century degree. So such a degree might have some utility for you at home, I don't know.

But it will have much less utility in the United States or Europe. It also might not be attractive to multinational corporations working in your area. And it won't get much respect from the internatinal professional organizations in computer science.

 

By the way, the Ph.D. in CS from UNISA is not 100% DL, when I got the application form there was a note that you were required to sign where the student acknowledges that he could be required to go to South Africa during the development of the Program.

 

I think the criterion is the phrase "could be required." It appears that Unisa will wave this requirement in many (if not most) cases for non-SA students.

Russell

 

Earlier this year when I inquired to University of South Africa's Computer Science Department regarding obtaining the Ph.D. via Distance, I was informed that they now require at least two two-weeks residential sessions per calendar year.

 

I'm an electrical engineer in the USA with many years of experience in computer hardware and integrated circuits. My highest degree is a Masters from Syracuse U in New York State, which is regionally accredited. In my opinion, a US PhD that is not regionally accredited in electronics or computer science is worse than no PhD at all. In other words, if a school like California Coast were to offer me a full scholarship to pursue a PhD, I would turn it down.


------------------
Gerry Ashton

 

Allow me to advise you while you still in the safe. I joined a CA state approved university and found it to be *less* then acceptable for me. I was assigned an advisor during the MBA (no faculty present to respond to any questions). On many occasions I emailed questions, never received an answer (I mean never never received an answer). It was obvious that by filling the multiple choice sheets you will get your degree and everyone is happy. Not my kind of education.

I immediately decided to shift to a RA school and quite satisfied with the outcome. Completed by MBA and joined their Ph.D. program. Received a substantial raise, and now teaching as a part timer in one of the local colleges.

If you join non-RA schools you will find yourself forced to defend it for the rest of your life. Do you really want to lead this road? I am giving you a serious advise here... GO RA even if you have to attend few weeks of residency. Big deal. Yes the tuition is much higher and the program is rigorous, but hay.. it is worth every penny.

Eli

 

With regard to quality state-approved programs offering computer science, I am not aware of any.

Quite frankly, I can probably count on one hand (certainly on two) the number of state-approved programs that I would personally feel comfortable suggesting to someone. NONE are ones that I would consider for myself, or that I would actually *recommend* to anyone.

If you are looking for a serious Ph.D. in computer science, you're going to want a first-class faculty advisor/mentor in your field of research, and I just don't think you're going to find anyone doing cutting-edge research in computer science who is working at a State-approved school.

Your best bet might be a program like Union where you can limit campus visits, or possibly (if they offer programs in the hard sciences) one of the British research doctorates which can sometimes be done without a campus visit.

At the undergrad level, you, of course, have lots of choices... but I suspect you're past that already.

I would not under any circumstances consider Century. Neil has, for as long as I've been reading his posts, spent most of his time here and on a.e.d. defending his doctorate. I suspect that he is one of the very few Century graduates that actually did some credible work for his degree, and it is unfortunate that his work earned him a degree that is accepted by hardly anyone in academia, and has only limited acceptance in the business world.

I highly recommend that you stay on the regionally accredited or GAAP criteria track in seeking out your degree.

Best of luck.

 

I second this recommendation 100%! Excellent advice for those seeking distance learning degrees, or any degree for that matter!

Russell

 

Well Rich,

There you go again.....

Since you brought it up, one of my CU dissertation panel was a Union Institute PhD. Which I think is where you got some of the credits you transferred into your current MIGS program.

The other two panel members were also fully RA-d PhDs.

As were the two faculty advisers I had over six years, thanks to extended program time due to working almost month about between the Middle East and Europe.

Both had BS, MS and PhD degrees arising from Northwestern, UCLA and University of Southern California collectively.

And all of this was under and within the terms of a valid, annually-renewed American state license covering faculty qualifications, course credit-hour requirements and administrative probity.

Somehow this doesn't quite square with your rant - for which the following quotation comes to mind: "methinks he doth protest too much".

Cheers,

Neil Hynd

 

I protest not at all. That's wonderful that you gathered with an august group of scholars to do your doctorate. But you did it at a "school" that (blah, blah, blah)....you know. And I don't care if you held you dissertation defense (if you had one) on top of Mt. Sinai, it doesn't change the name of the school on the diploma: Century University. And everything I've said about Century is true and available for anyone's inspection.

You respond, but you do not answer, nor refute. And no rant, just a slew of really discrediting facts that never seem to improve--or disappear.

Oops, my mistake; you did respond to one item: Century's license. It bears repeating, then, that Century fled California when it could not meet that state's standard for approval. It fled to a state with almost no oversight of higher education, New Mexico. When New Mexico strengthened its standards it "grandfathered" Century, which did not--and does not--meet the new, tougher standards. State licensing, especially in this case, is merely a legal right to operate. It confers absolutely no legitimacy or recognition. One might as well earn a degree from a Nevada brothel. Equally legal, and equally unaccepted by the rest of society.

I guess I'm impressed by someone who doesn't "park around back" and hide his or her patronage of that academic cathouse. But not too impressed when it is recommended to others.

Rich Douglas

 

Excellent point that CS is a quickly moving field and makes non-residence very difficult if not impossible. I would just like to add to that point that CS theories in this day and age take much more than just a one man project to investigate. It takes a team to get all the necessary programing done. A closely working team that needs to meet face-to-face to work out design details/interfaces/assignments etc. A non-resident CS PhD would not be capable of full participation in project such as this.

 

I agree. CS requires a lot of lab work and it is more research intensive, that is why is very hard to be accepted in a Ph.D. in CS on a part time basis, most of the research supervisors requires you to do full time research at least for one year. In the other hand, Information Systems could be combined with your full time job since it is a more business-oriented field. As a matter of fact some Doctorates like the ones from Deakin and USQ accept dissertations with work related content, thing that will be almost impossible in CS unless you work in a research institute.