I've read all these posts on the VAE process in France (La Validation des Acquis de l'Expérience) and still can't understand it. Is this a real process for obtaining a degree or not? Are degrees given through this process acceptable to agencies which look at the equivalency of degrees from Foreign countries or not. If this is a legitimate process why would a degree from schools as Trinity International, École Supérieure Universitaire Adam Smith™, or French Ecole Supérieure Universitaire Robert de Sorbon be considered not appropriate but one from a French state school would if this is a process for evaluating experience used by all? As Moe said to Curley "I'll explain it so even you can understand it ! Help anyone please!
Because there is a difference between the degree and the educative process behind it. An excellent educative process does not, in and of itself, confer legitimacy on the resulting degree. The issuing institution, and its recognition (accreditation, for example) does that. I have no opinion about VAE because, frankly, anything being bandied about by diploma mills tends to make my eyes squint. I just haven't paid much attention to it. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that VAE is in use at recognized universities. If so, its use by unrecognized universities (or even diploma mills) doesn't make them better. It doesn't change a thing.
RICH I understand your point that it is the university awarding it that gives it creditability and the fact that degree mills are using it as a kind of loophole does raise flags. This is why I have asked the questions about it. "Experience " doesn't always translate well into academic credit and in the USA at the graduate level it isn't even considered. Is this a flawed process, or are the French better at evaluating this than we are and more advanced in thinking? IF an unaccredited university uses this process in the same way as a "state French university" and awards a degree I guess our feeling would be that an unaccredited university would be more liberal in awarding credit or the degree to undeserving individuals and the "real French universities" wouldn't. But back to my original question : Is this a real process for obtaining a degree or not? Are degrees given through this process acceptable to agencies which look at the equivalency of degrees from Foreign countries or not in the USA. (and by that I mean one of the members of NACES) as WES or Silkney and Associates. I know the process isn't acceptable to Oregon.
I would agree with Rich. While I haven't paid attention to the details of this issue my understanding is that the VAE process, as it is used in legitimate French universities is an accepted method of evaluating experience for credit toward degrees. I do not know if a person can earn an entire degree through the VAE process at a legitimate French university. I also don't know who actually performs the evaluation of experience in the legitimate VAE process, what standards do they use and how transparent is the process. I would think that these might be among the issues that distinguish the use of the VAE process at legitimate French schools as opposed to the less than wonderful entities that have been discussed in the past. Jack
It has already been shown that the Universitaire Robert de Sorbon is a diploma mill because it's degree are not recognized within France. If they aren't recognized as legitimate degrees in their home country then why should they be recognized anywhere else? VAE is just a silly distraction that diploma mill apologists have tried to use to hide the fact that this place bestows bogus degrees.
I would have been better off posing the question without including the 3 schools we all agree are suspect. I am more interested in the process -is it as valid as other ways of assessing credit as Clep, Dantes, portfolios and other innovative progams like a PHD for published works or is it a cheapening of degrees being awarded for experience? Does it have any application for a non French person? Can a US citizen be awarded a degree through this process from a legitimate school in France? It is a diffficult to comprehend process even though there are tons of websites describing it. The Bergen conference has tried to unify degrees throughout Europe and this is part of the process and may be used in othe countries (although there are many in France against it) Again thanks for past responses and future ones.
The VAE is a real procedure that AFAIK is used by university admission offices to evaluate candidates without traditional credentials. For instance, one may use it to seek acceptance to a master´s program if he/she considers she/he has an equivalent level of competence acquired in the workplace, or by independent study. I don´t think the French government gives you a degree or a certificate or a diploma or anything like that.
My view is that Rich answered the question better than I can but I'll exercise my fingers a bit for fun. I don't necessarily need to understand the details of how it works. If legitimate french universities are using it then I think that it is fair to assume, at least in my mind, that it is academic rigorous and valid.
University of Paris is utilizing VAE and awarding derees based on this. So VAE performed proprly by such an university is valid and recognized. Some countries still require a person to take classes and will not recognize credit of the VAE type. But in Most countries degree from University of Paris will be accepted as equivalent to thwirs. As far as misuse or abuse or deceprion in use of VAE well this is posible and it what some of the mentioned entities do. So misuse is posible.
It's incomprehensible to virtually all Anglophones at this point. That's one reason why the mills seem to be trying so hard to exploit it. I think that the words are just French for 'prior learning assessment'. So in that respect it's nothing particularly exciting, since American and other Anglophone universities have already been doing prior learning assessments for decades. Unfortunately so have the mills, with their life experience degrees. I don't really understand the French system, but apparently they allow new private higher education institutions to operate with a basic level of oversight provided by local 'academies'. It's kind of analogous to state-approval, I guess. There apparently are detailed regulations concerning mandatory curriculum and faculty qualifications. But 'VAE' seems to allow new schools to neatly ignore that. The local authorities inspect physical premises, but operating 'VAE' programs, particularly by DL, allows schools to dodge that one too. After new private schools have been operating for a minimum of five years, they can request the national education ministry to in-effect accredit their diplomas, after quality of instruction audits and the like. But the more doubtful 'VAE' schools are unlikely to ever request that. It isn't even clear how it would be applied to 'VAE' degrees (there's no instruction). My own impression is that 'VAE', or at least the kind of 'VAE' that's being marketed to Anglophone DL students, is basically a con-game at this point. Lots of incomprehensible French rhetoric is thrown at Anglophones, accompanied by insufferable attitude. Then we are expected to simply accept that it's all 'RA equivalent'. If we question that, we are referred to foreign-credential evaluators, some of whom may have serious conflicts of interest. If we continue to remain skeptical, we are told that we are disrespecting France and displaying our own provincial ignorance. It's poetic justice, I guess, since Americans have been doing similar things (but without the Gallic flair) to Asians for many years. DL marketers tout state approval as the governmental gold-standard, much preferrable to voluntary private accreditation. And students in countries like China with paternalistic governments eat it up. But just because we do it to foreigners is no reason to fall for it when the foreigners try to do it to us. I suppose that I'd give some credence to French degrees earned at least in part by prior learning or 'VAE', but only if the degrees came from institutions that were already indisputably legitimate. But if a new 'ecole' suddenly appears from out of nowhere offering little or nothing besides 'VAE', then I'd probably consider it a likely degree-mill until I get convincing evidence otherwise. The sad part is that people with credible 'VAE' degrees from legitimate institutions might begin to encounter prejudice if mills piss in the 'VAE' waters outside France. If France really wants to market their educational services to Anglophones, and especially if they expect French degrees to be recognized and respected by employers and clients in the United States and elsewhere, then they need to give some immediate thought to providing a clear and authoritative English-language explanation of how their system works and what kind of quality assurance processes and institutional recognitions exist within it.
Bill- Thanks -your post did alot to help me think about this process. Glad to know I'm not the only one who doesn't understand it. I agree with all that it's use by millish schools doen't help it's creditability. The more I research it though I believe the French govt is not really marketing or promoting it for nonFrench citizens -other than licensing these private schools that do market to "foreigners." I wrote to several State French Universites (Lilly, Paris etc) and those that did respond did not really seem to understand how it would apply to a non-French citizen. So until further info is given or a legitimate State French school promotes it as Sorbon and Trinity does I will consider it useless . It does seem to benefit the French citizen who can obtain some sort of credential for experience( degree or diploma etc).
