'There's been a dilution in the quality of the MBA'

Someone recommended to me the book by Henry Mintzberg "Managers Not MBAs: A Hard Look at the Soft Practice of Managing and Management Development."

By Googling Henry Mintzberg aacsb I found the following article using Google cache:

Businessworld 'There's been a dilution in the quality of the MBA'

The author interviews Jeffrey Pfeffer, Thomas D. Dee II Professor of Organizational Behavior at Stanford University

Some quotes from the article:

Thank you Dr. Pfeffer of Stanford University!

Just my opinion

 

Good work, Carlos.

 

I am not trained in the area of Business. I do not an d will never have an MBA. Despite all that, it seems to me that the criticisms offered up by the author of the article (or the subjects of the interviews) could be equally applied to almost any discipline. Just in the field of Social Work, all the criticisms lodged are applicable. No offense to you, but the idea that academics are the stogy individuals who are frequently "last on board" is an old story. Clinical innovations almost always come from the field. I've always suspected that the same was true in other disciplines. Why would anyone think otherwise?
Jack

 

Absolutely Jack. Carlos seems to have real issue with AACSB. I must admit I am no fan of the B-school alphabet soup and find AACSB to have a bit of elitest attitude but I can't deny that all the top schools are AACSB accredited and until they decied to dump it,it is going to be this way. The real question remains is if you are not going to a tier 1 school is AACSB going to matter at all?

 

It's been awhile since I've done any real serious posting. I have been off pursuing other things, and now find I have a passel-load of time once again.

One of the big issues I see is there are just way too many MBAs. I've said it before, it is getting to the point that one cannot swing a dead cat on a sidewalk and not hit a half a dozen MBAs with it. I've seen people with no desire to ever be a manger or even incorporate a more business like approach to their work go for an MBA simply out of the belief it would guarantee them extra money.

Further, it seems schools are competing with each other to see just how fast they can churn out MBAs and still retain accreditation. One RA school here in Silly-con Valley is advertising a 10 month, accelerated, keep your job, MBA.

While there may very well be a dilution of the quality of MBAs, there is also a commoditization process going on in the MBA market. An MBA just doesn't mean what it once did, in fact it didn't really mean as much as when I earned mine (in 22 months).

I doubt the quality will improve while there is so little meaning to the degree. At some point either it will no longer have a salary premium associated with it (negative or a zero ROI), or it will become a tick mark on a job requirements list along with 'high school diploma.'

 

Many of professions require certain degrees since licenses and such are required.

Medical doctors and lawyers come to mind.

If you want to be a licensed clinical social worker in the State of Florida you need a MSW:
Clinical Social Work, Marriage & Family Therapy & Mental Health Counseling

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/491/soc_lic_req.html#Clinical%20Social%20Work

Clinical Social Work – Masters degree in social work;

Want to be a CPA?
http://www.nasba.org/NASBAWeb.nsf/EXMP?OpenForm&url=fl

No need for AACSB

Criticizm of medical, law, accounting and social work curriculum will not change that.If a degree is required then one has no choice.

I know of no state license that requires an MBA from an AACSB school. The value of the degree is preceived. If this preception become tainted the demand for the degree drops. Duing my research of MBA schools I found that MBA enrollment is dropping at top schools, businesses are becoming dissatified with top tier graduates, and some companies are turning to graduates of other fields.

There is a problem with the current system. The articles I quoted attests to that. Some MBAs are problem solvers. Instead of saying everyone else has the same problem, fix it!

If sharing my findings with others considering a graduate degree here makes me "seems to have real issue with AACSB" then so be it. I always felt that knowledge is power.

Just my opinion

 

Animal Abuse! MBA Abuse! Arrest him!

 

I wonder which would raise more ire in the general population-

- Dead cat abuse or MBA abuse?
- Lawyer abuse or MBA abuse?
- Enron executive abuse or MBA abuse?
- Martha stewart abuse or lawyer abuse?
- Lawyer abuse or Enron Executive abuse?
- Bush abuse or lawyer abuse

 

While I think Stanford in general is a good school, I take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt. I have met too many "Stanford" educated engineers who couldn't tie their shoes, let alone design anything other than theory. You can attend an entire 6 + year masters course in EE and never actually have to design a working circuit. (sort of pathetic).

As far as Stanford MBA's - I have worked with a few with mixed results. Our CEO is a Stanford MBA and so far I am not really that impressed. Th comment about B schools is very indicative of the arrogance of the University in general. Just because you didn't get a 700 on your GMAT or can get in as a legacy graduate to Stanford, doesn't mean you are less of an MBA. And just because you are an Stanford or other A school graduate doesn't mean you can wipe your own butt correctly.

You get what you put in -- that is true for every school and every profession. Whether you went to UoP, Stanford, or even Yale, the actual quality of the degree depends primarily on the skill and seriousness of the individual.

My two:

If I was looking for an MBA in the Valley - I would hire a SCU over a Stanford because SCU focuses on business-technology integration to a greater degree. Also, more of your classmates are tech professions.

For Engineers, I would hire a DeVry-Phoenix or SJSU over a Stanford person. You want someone who can do the work and actually know how to design instead of someone who can talk about it. If you are doing hard and fast research - fine - hire the Stanford guy (or gal). But for the most part, those jobs are few and far between.

Just my two.....

 

I'd take it a step further...

I am going the CMA (Certified Management Accountancy) route in Canada, and interestingly enough, the Ontario regulatory body for the CMA approved/recognized my business course credits that I got from Aspen U (DETC school) towards the entrance examination... Sure, I will have to do a couple of advanced Canadian accounting courses before I write the entrance exam, but that is to be expected even if I had gotten my MBA from an AACSB school in the USA. Needless, to say, my credits were recognized which is a VERY GOOD sign for me... less than 5K (books included - long story how that happened) for an MBA was a good investment in my case. What a gamble!

 

Obviously, from most serious to least serious, they are: dead cat abuse, Martha Stewart abuse, MBA abuse, lawyer abuse, Enron executive abuse, and George Bush abuse, in that order.

 

Re: I'd take it a step further...

Congratulations!

In Florida you can have an unaccredited degree and still sit for the CPA exam if you do the following:

Applicants Who Have Graduated from Non-Accredited Schools (61H1-27.001) (5)
Applicants who have graduated from a non-accredited school may still qualify to sit for the CPA examination. The candidate must take 15 semester hours of graduate classes. With at least nine hours of graduate level accounting courses to include three semester hours of graduate tax. THESE HOURS MUST BE TAKEN AFTER ADMISSION TO GRADUATE SCHOOL.

Good luck!

 

How very true. When I was an undergrad I skated through the required courses that had nothing to do with my major. When it came to the marketing courses I studied and researched as hard as I could. Any additional material was welcomed. Some of my fellow classmates did the minimum possible. We all took the same course with the same instructor. Yet I believe I got much more out of it than the goof-offs.

Just my opinion

 

I worked for a company that was verymuch into the name recognition thing, especially when it came from Ivy League schools. The company even had an on-site Hah-vahd club.

The company's management was quite arrogant. Eventually this arrogance was one of the issues that led to the company's downfall, and contributed to the other issues leading to their downfall. Management expected the world to blindly do their bidding. At one time the CTO argued something was not possible, but was being done in one of the offshore subs.

I also worked at a company that had a Stanford MBA for a CEO. He was unstable, and rarely followed a direction. Whichever direction the wind was going, so went he. As a manager, he was OK, as a leader....... well, he held occasional meetings.

I would not doubt that all the people involved were smart, intelligent, caring people. However, the halo effect associated with some of these schools can be quite strong. Sort of like ta-da-dah-dummmmmmmmm- the Dark Side!

 

Who knows? The dilution in the quality of the MBA may have begun when they started letting educated derelicts in.

 

Re: Re: 'There's been a dilution in the quality of the MBA'

Remember the FedEx commercial:

http://www.vermontcynic.com/media/paper308/news/2004/03/02/National/Mba-No.Longer.Guarantees.Success-622840.shtml

 

Talking about a topic like this its is often helpful to ask the question: The quality of MBA programs became diluted compared to what?
If we compare today's MBA programs with that ones around in the 1950s, the modern MBA curriculum is clearly not "diluted". Back then, nobody knew what Information Systems and Organizational Behavior were and social skills played only a very inferior role. Instead the MBA programs heavily concentrated on a few hardcore business subjects such as Finance and Accounting.
To boot, somebody familiar with the history of business schools will know that in the 1960s the MBA programs were shred to pieces in much the same way as it is today.

Dennis

 

How many accredited MBA programs ARE there? Thousands, maybe? As opposed to a couple hundred each of law and medical schools? So there are GOBS of new MBAs roaring through the pipeline every year. Surely thare will be a LOT of variation among schools, classes, and graduates!

 

Partially, I agree with your remarks. However, it is also true that the demand for business educated people is much higher than the demand for doctors or lawyers.

Dennis

 

Hmm.