The Union Institute

For anyone interested, The Union Institute is holding three information sessions in New England concerning their doctoral programs in both Interdisciplinary Arts & Sciences and Professional Psychology. The schedule is:

July 20 6-9pm Holiday Inn, Dedham, MA

July 21 3-6pm Crowne Plaza, Hartford, CT

July 22 3-6pm Holiday Inn, Concord, NH

If anyone is interested, contact the school at 1-800-486-3116 to reserve your spot.

I will be attending the July 20th session in Dedham, so any degreeinfo.com members that might be attending also, let me know. Drinks are on me.

Bruce

 

Well Bruce, I could probably drive to Dedham in about an hour. It might be worth it if you're really going to buy ALL the drinks.
If, however, I don't happen to make it, maybe you could ask them for me ... "How do I pay the Union Institute tuition without putting a second mortgage on my house?" Thanks,
Jack

 

Jack,

Arrange for the sale of one of your kidneys, and your left testicle.

North

 

If it's just two of us, then my offer stands. Any more people, and I might as well pay for my first year at Union.

Seriously, the Union tutition is actually quite reasonable when compared to other US RA Doctoral programs. Certainly not cheap, but also not out of line, IMO.

Bruce

 

The fact is, I decided some time ago that the American program that would best fit my needs was The Union Institute. I liked the interdisciplinary emphasis in their programs,
there was a satellite center near my home so that I could even commute during the residency periods, and I even knew a faculty member from my previous grad school. I just can't swing the money. I mean, I'm still paying off the loans from my Masters degree, I can't take out even more loans at this point. I'd rather have the American PhD, not because I think it's superior in quality but because of the reaction you get from people. It may well be worth the money it costs but if you don't have/can't get the money it costs then it matters not if it's a good deal. Twenty years ago I would have taken the drive to Dedham just to have those drinks but today I'll just say "Thanks for the offer." I am reconciled to the fact that I'm going to take another route to my goal.
Jack

 

For a lot of us who have considered Union and finally (reluctantly in many cases) concluded that it's too expensive, I'm wondering if it's "only a matter of time" before American state universities and other schools get into offering DL and limited residency doctorates in a wide variety of subject areas. It's not a rhetorical question; I really have no idea if that's a viable wish.

I'm working on a non-RA doctorate now with no expectations that it will be used as a credential for my work, and I am enjoying it. But for professional purposes I would love to earn an RA Ph.D. in political science and public policy, but it's simply not worth it to either (a) take a leave of absence from my teaching job to do it at a residential school; (b) spend a lot of money for a self-designed program through Union; or (c) go with a foreign program in which the faculty will not be as versed in American politics and policymaking.

Perhaps the "next generation" of DL programs will be an influx of RA doctorate options offered by American universities. I hope so!

 

So, Union tuition is quite reasonable when compared with other unreasonably expensive programs.

 

"The reaction you get from people"... you may well find that, from knowledgable folk, that a traditional Phd from a traditional foreign school (earned non-residentially, of course) provides a much more positive reaction than a low-ranked, non-traditional US school.

 

Lewchuk - I'm hoping that you're right because that's the direction I'm headed.
Jack

 

Of course the operative words are "knowledgable folk".

 

And the basis for this assertion is....? I'm not aware of any evidence to support this contention, but would happily review any that becomes available.

If at the end of my doctoral program I was given the choice to receive my degree from, say, The Union Institute, UNISA, Central Queensland University, University of Leicester, Open University, University of Leeds, or Charles Sturt University, I would choose The Union Institute every time. (Or Touro, or Nova Southeaster, or Walden, or Capella, or....) I live in the U.S., and a degree from an accredited university in the U.S. will raise far fewer questions and require far less explanation. If you even get the opportunity to explain it.

Some people fail to realize the amount of pre-screening that takes place in the hiring process. Most of the jobs we apply for result in nothing. No interview, no job, probably not even an acknowledgement that our application was received. Nothing. We get screened out. We never know how nor why; we're just out. Our resumes are designed for one purpose: to get us a job interview. If our resumes contain information that raise more questions than they answer, bad for us. And when some HR recruiter reaches for his/her guide of accredited universities (almost certainly not the International Handbook of Universities or other such guide, but a list of universities accredited by U.S. accrediting agencies), I want him/her to find my school listed. I might not ever get to the point where I will have an opportunity to expain how and why I took my degree from Sturt, CQU, or the like.

You can talk about quality all you want. But you can get a quality education without a degree. You get the degree because it will perform for you. And in the U.S., a degree from an RA school will perform far better than one from all but the very most famous foreign schools.

Now, that's 22 years of HR-related experience talking, not to mention having worked in and around DE all that time. But I could be mistaken.

Rich Douglas

 

And you know this because......??? I suspect that statement is based more on personal bias than on hard evidence. But, as Rich said, I'd be glad to look at your evidence, should you have any.

Bruce

 

Weren’t you working on a Ph.D. at a Mexican Institution? if you feel that a foreign Ph.D. is not a good thing for a US resident, why were you interested in MIGS? I believe that a local university is the best option for a DL student but the foreign option looks good more in terms of time, flexibility and cost. For example in Canada a Ph.D. takes about five years to complete while in England or Australia is 3 years without taking into account that We don’t have too many options in DL at a Ph.D. level in Canada. In the other hand if some one lives in Texas, he could easily explain a degree from MIGS since it is very close to Monterrey Mexico.


Regards

 

I didn't say a foreign degree was a bad option; just that it wasn't optimal. Yes, I was enrolled at MIGS. I considered it a compromise I was willing to undertake (at least in its proposed form; reality was much different). But I never said it was a preferred option. In fact, I often said just the opposite. Words to the effect of, "We don't know how acceptable a degree from a Mexican university no one ever heard of will be."

What has been proferred is the notion that a degree from a foreign school would be preferable to one from an accredited school in the U.S. I am saying this isn't so for U.S. residents. That's all.


Rich Douglas

 

Sorry, one other thing. The notion that a degree from the CEU would somehow be more acceptable in Texas because of its proximity to Monterrey doesn't seem likely. We're talking about two very dissimilar cultures. Others have argued pursuasively that a degree from another Anglo culture might work better because of similarities in culture and eductional systems.

I grew up in south San Diego, about 10 miles from Mexico. As an adult, I lived in San Antonio for 4 years and San Diego for another 7. There is a huge cultural gulf between our two nations, even after NAFTA. I would offer that a degree from a Mexican university no one ever heard of would get about the same amount of play in Texas as it would in Wisconsin. How much is anyone's guess.

Rich Douglas

 

Since you seem to know quite a bit of Mexican institutions, I would like to ask you for some advice, I have a friend that has an offer to do a Ph.D. in international business at UNAM, which is one of the most respectable institutions in Mexico. He feels that he could benefit from the Ph.D. since he will have the opportunity to learn more Spanish and his research will be in Latin American Business, Do you feel that this is a good option? Even for someone that is planning to teach at a Canadian or a US University?

Thanks in advance,

 

Well, it's a good school with an international reputation. Whether or not it is a good option for any particular person is up to that person. Considering the nature of this person's study, it would seem appropriate to study it at a Mexican school. It would seem likely that a person with a PhD from UNAM would be eligible for a faculty position; I believe I've seen people like that listed on faculties. But it would be good for him/her to check this out with prospective employers.

In a recent review of the literature I recently conducted, I noted that AACRAO considers degrees from Mexican universities appropriate for entry into the next higher level of program in the U.S. So, the holder of the Mexican equivalent of the master's would be considered as having an appropriate credential for entry into U.S. doctoral program. And many professors with doctorates from Mexican universities teach on faculties in their own country as well as in other countries.

Rich Douglas

 

While I have NO sympathy for Lewchuk's neverending jihad against American higher education, I am going to disagree with you there.

I think that most hiring at the doctoral level is a lot more subtle than that. Nobody is going to be dismissing foreign universities en-masse. Nor will they be slavishly following one Canadian's idea of overall university prestige.

Rather, they will be looking for candidates to fill a carefully defined position. That might be a university faculty spot teaching courses in a particular specialty area. Or it might be a research position in a biotech firm researching a certain class of receptor sites on cell membranes or something.

So what they will want is a candidate from a legitimate school that has the needed expertise and knowledge. They will want to know about what the candidate's dissertation was on and what he or she has published. They will want to know about previous work experience. They will want to see references from figures known in the field.

The prestige and reputation of the graduate school might factor in, but probably at a departmental specialty level and not at an institutional level.

So probaably all of the schools you listed have their strengths and could make a decent showing in their specialty areas. Leicester has a well known archaeology school, and their Ph.D. 'by research' in 'archeology and heritage' might be a strong contender if the candidate had other experience to go along with it, like a US National Park Service position at Chaco Canyon.

Nova Southeastern is well known in the United States in education, so a Nova Ed.D. with responsible experience as a school administrator would work.

The Union Institute has a more alternative image, emphasizing multidisciplinary doctorates in social-change oriented fields. So if you want to go to work for a politically oriented non-profit in Washington DC, Union might be your best choice of the group.

 

Hi, Valve. BTW, I like your name, it reminds me of an old fashioned British radio engineer or something.

But you raise an issue that I see hovering around many of this group's discussions but is rarely discussed:

Should one be ashamed to have studied by distance education and try to hide that fact from prospective employers?

My feeling is that if one studies by DL than one should be open about the fact and try to sell it.

I am now going to commit degreeinfo heresy. I think that all-in-all, distance education is inferior to on-campus education. That's just my opinion, but I think that it is widely shared. BUT (this is the big point) distance education plus relevant experience is superior to on-campus education.

Taking an example from my last post, a Leicester DL Ph.D. in 'archaeology and heritage' is probably going to be perceived as inferior to an on-campus archaeology or historic preservation program. But a national park service ranger with a significant position at Chaco Canyon earning one based on on-site work is going to look a lot better. Especially when interviewing for positions dealing with Southwestern Indian cultures.

The Union Institute will look a lot better if you earn a Union Ph.D. while working for Greenpeace or something.

 

I totally agree with you Bill, as a matter of fact I’m doing a DBA in DL and it has helped me to land a job as an online university professor (part time). I also do some teaching on-ground and I didn’t get any bad feedback when I mentioned this to my chair of department. But I must recognize that some people see it as if you were buying your degree, the notion of DL is associated with the easy correspondence school that appears on the Sunday newspaper or on the late night shows. In order to make a DL degree credible you have to make it look as professional as possible, if your doctorate is backed up with some publishing in journals and some university teaching you shouldn’t have a problem to make it look real.