CCU and SCUPS

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Michael Smith, Jul 13, 2001.

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  1. Michael Smith

    Michael Smith New Member

    Hi everyone. I posted earlier regarding the legitmacy of a California state-approved institution: California Coast University. Given the issue of "flushing out the spammers", which I don't completely understand and am unwilling to dwell on, I am left a bit confused. Which arguments were legitimate ones and which ones were not?

    I guess the question left for me is CCU (and for that matter SCUPS) legitimate schools that choose not to pursue RA, or, is it the opionion of most on this board, that they are something else?

    This is important to me as I have requested material packages from each (I have already reviewed their web sites), and either seems to meet my needs.

    Thanks for for input in advance.

    Michael
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    These issues have been discussed at great length in previous threads. You should look back upon them for more insight from the members of this board. My take is:

    CCU and SCUPS are legitimate. The are unaccredited because (1) they are unaccreditable, at least in their current forms and in their current jurisdiction (WASC). (2) I believe it is outside the scope of either school's business plan to become accredited. The benefits don't outweigh the costs and hassles.

    To become accredited, both schools would have to go through serious makeovers. They would have to add residency periods, strengthen their curricular offerings, perhaps cut otherwise profitable programs, raise tuition, increase staff, tighten their faculties, increase time-in-program requirements, decrease flexibility in their programs, etc. This might actually result in a drop in the number of students enrolled (and decreased revenues) while at the same time increasing costs. So even if either school could become accredited, I don't think either would do it.

    Rich Douglas
     
  3. Michael Smith

    Michael Smith New Member

    Thanks Rich. Thats good enough for me. Again, I just wasn't sure if the earlier threads were sincere argumets.

    Michael
     
  4. Bob Harris

    Bob Harris New Member

    California Coast University is clearly one of the very best legitimate, cost-effective, and credible institutions offering higher education degrees. I personally know 3 people who studied at CCU during the 1990's and who later met with significant career advancement and increased incomes. The three now hold the following positions 1) a CTO, 2) a division president, 3) a regional Vice President. All three are employed within the high-tech information technology/communications industry and have met with much success following their CCU experiences. Dollar for dollar, there may not be a better institution than CCU.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Okay, I said some positive things about CCU. But here's the negative: degrees from unaccredited schools have almost no acceptance in higher education in the U.S. There is no research measuring the same in the workplace. However, many, many companies have hiring, promotion, and tuition reimbursement policies that require degrees from accredited schools. While a degree from an unaccredited school might be perfect for some people, the assertion that "for dollar, there may not be a better institution than CCU" us unfounded. For many people, a degree from CCU would be nothing more than an expensive waste of time. Unfortunately, that is often discovered after the fact. Also, CCU is not such a bargain at the undergraduate level, where there are many inexpensive, accredited programs available. Let's not exaggerate the cost/benefit dynamic of CCU.

    In 1992, I conducted a survey of graduates from 6 DL master's programs. (n=196) Two were accredited, the other four were unaccredited. I asked respondents to weigh different reasons for pursuing their degrees, then weigh how satisfied they were that their programs met those expectations. Generally, respondents pursued degrees from unaccredited schools for personal, rather than professional, reasons. Those that did were relatively satisfied with their degrees. However, some respondents did their degrees to improve their professional lives. They were significantly less satisfied with their degrees. Many felt burned by the lack of accreditation--and in some schools' lack of candor about it.

    The survey was the core of a doctoral dissertation never submitted. Nor will it ever be.

    Rich Douglas
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I think you're getting a bit carried away. I've often said that CCU is one of the only unaccredited schools I'd recommend *if the person was sure that an unaccredited degree would meet their needs*. The sad fact is that business & HR people seem to be a lot less enlightened than academic people in regards to accreditation, so the CCU degree that has served someone well for years might blow up if new people start examining resumes.

    One of the biggest reasons I'm an RA supporter is that the validity of the degree will never be called into question.

    Bruce
     
  7. Michael Smith

    Michael Smith New Member

    With respect to "Quality and Customer Satisfaction", does anyone have any comments or first hand knowledge/experience regarding such comparing California Coast University (CCU) with Southern California University for Professonal Studies (SCUPS)? In Particular, their PhD or DBA programs?
     
  8. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Rich,
    If this is true for CCU and SCUPS, why couldn't it also be true for unaccredited Bible Colleges/Seminaries? In the American Christian College and Seminary thread you wrote:

    "There doesn't seem to be any reason why a legitimate religious school would not now have access to recognition by a legitimate accrediting agency. It would seem that degrees from unaccredited Bible schools would be deemed honorary at best."

    With that logic, the degrees from unaccredited secular schools would also be "honorary at best", would they not? They have access to DETC accreditation, which I assume is on a par with TRACS.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I recently conducted a review of the literature in this field in support of my doctoral dissertation. There has been no such study of these two schools. I mention in an earlier post the study I did 9 years ago. But that was at the master's level. Jacquiline Funk did a dissertation in 1980 comparing four doctoral programs. It is availble from www.contentville.com or directly from UMI.

    The biggest challenge in conducting such a survey is access to the population. Schools tend to consider their mailing lists proprietary information. They don't give them out at the drop of a hat. I found it extremely difficult to get names and addresses of graduates. I'm not so sure CCU or SCUPS would jump right in to support it. What would be in it for them? It wouldn't improve enrollments. In fact, bad results--and their publication--could hinder enrollments.

    Rich Douglas
     
  10. Cooke

    Cooke New Member

    I agree with Rich that there are much better alternatives for undergraduate degrees. The utility for a state approved degree depends on what else you have done and what you intend to do with it. It clearly isn't for everybody.

    I am one of those rare individuals for which a state approved advanced degree (CCU DBA) "meets my current and future needs." I am not going to teach. I am not going back to school for further degrees. I am a CFO with 20+ years of experience and have a top-10 RA MBA and three professional certifications. I disagree with those who feel that the CCU degree somehow dilutes my other accomplishments. It has been "perfect" for my needs.
     
  11. Bob Harris

    Bob Harris New Member

    I’d like to offer an apology to the board for undertaking an unsanctioned clandestine activity. You see, I wanted to find out how people would react to a glowing review of an unaccredited (but legitimate) institution. More importantly, it was my desire to identify the very individuals who held certain opinions so that this information could then be used to categorize and label those said individuals. Afterwords, we can then…..

    In all reality, I really don’t believe CCU is the best way to go even though my friends made out all right. There are clearly much more viable and credible alternatives – specifically Regionally Accredited. I see little reason for most people to pursue a non-RA degree in this day of many choices. This earlier post was an attempt on my part to show absurdity by being absurd and to vent a little more on a troubling subject.

    I guess I’m still a bit taken aback by the recent activities on this board. What’s been done here by these activities is to damage the credibility of this discussion group – a group from which I’ve received considerable and valuable information (in addition to good entertainment). And, I GREATLY appreciate the work and civility (for the most part) of the members. But now, how can I read responses to questions from some entity knowing that maybe one of the administrators had secretly created this entity for some ulterior motive? Like, to search out those who hold the “wrong” opinions. Sure, likely not. But, I now lack confidence in the validity and credibility of what’s going here and can’t deny that the above example is a possibility.

    Particularly disturbing is this. In the ensuing moments today following my original response regarding CCU, I was flooded with over 90 compromising attempts on my PC in the span of a couple minutes from the same IP address. And, in the ensuing moments following my post a couple weeks ago where I used ex-pres Clinton in an analogy in an unflattering manner, which obviously offended one particular member, I was hit with a similar flurry of attempts to compromise my PC from the SAME IP address! Coincidence? Considering the deceitful and clandestine activities witnessed from individuals on this board, I don’t believe so.

    I would suggest that everyone download a free copy of Zone Alarm or other software firewall program to prevent unwanted and potentially damaging hacks into your system.

    Bob
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No need for apology, Bob! Based on your glowing recommendation of CCU, I have just enrolled in the dual MBA/Ph.D. program. I only hope I have the utility with the degrees that your friends did. [​IMG]

    Russell
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm biased against DL bible "colleges." So many of them are just degree mills hiding behind the First Amendment. So many others are not academic; they offer a few correspondence courses in return for a degree (any level of degree). Sure, there are legitimate, unaccredited bible schools. Some might be accreditable, some not. But they have access to such accreditation.

    California-approved schools also have access to accreditation, but often not in their current form. California-approved schools all go through an evaluative process. This is not true with all bible colleges. And no California-approved school meets a reasonable definition of a degree mill. These are two different populations we're talking about. The variabililty in quality of bible colleges runs the gamut from good and legitimate to diploma mill. This just isn't the case with California-approved schools.

    Rich Douglas
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am not biased against Bible colleges per se, since ministry is my field of study. I am biased against all "institutions," which purport to offer a "degree" program of any kind, when in reality it is nothing more than a degree mill. There are many religious oriented "schools" seeking to offer a sincere/serious program of training for those in ministry.

    I do, however, totally agree with Rich that "so many of them are just degree mills hiding behind the First Amendment." For religious oriented "schools," it is much easier to operate legally even when the programs offered are merely a joke. And sadly, as with all degree mills, the ultimate objective is money.

    And I also agree that at least the CA state-approved schools are required to meet certain state guidelines, limited though they may be. Religious schools can operate legally, simply because they are religious in nature, with no mandatory guidelines. For this reason those seeking degrees in religion/ministry/theology/Biblical studies should be even more cautious of non-accredited programs.

    Russell
     

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