Confused : Diplomas and Degrees

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Abbacabba, May 5, 2005.

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  1. Abbacabba

    Abbacabba New Member

    Are diplomas generally well received in academic circles as well as in business?

    Are they more like certifications than degrees?


    I've never been made fully aware of the clear cut differences between Diplomas and Degrees.


    Can someone explain?



    Also, what would be the legal differences in legally issuing diplomas over degrees? Can any one issue a diploma?

    Would places like KW perhaps not be such a millish operation if they issued diplomas instead of saying they were degrees?

    Would most of the prosecuted degree mills have escaped legal action had they stated they were issuing diplomas?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2005
  2. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    You are asking for some fairly specific answers based upon some very general information. For my part it would be most helpful if you could give and example of the sort of diploma to which you are referring. For example, a diploma in ______, issued by _______university.
    Jack
     
  3. LBTRS

    LBTRS Member

    It is my understanding that the diploma is the piece of paper that lists the education institution's awarding of a degree. The degree is a title and the diploma is the certificate which issues you that title.

    I may be wrong though.
     
  4. Jodokk

    Jodokk Member

    Great Questions there.

    I have often wondered about this as well.
    The Local Community College here in town is accredited by SACS but they offer the prestegious Associates of "Applied" Science degree. NOW, is this degree regulated at all by SACS or typically only by the appropriate technical or business accreditor? How 'bout those certificates and diplomas?
    If this accreditor is recognized by the USDOE, great! But if it isn't, does that make the institution a little "millish".
    Let's say that if I required the same core curriculum that, say, cosc requires, all available by testing... and then created a 30 credit curriculum in Monkey Fighting with enough of an actual education to make one a first class monkey trainer, fight promoter, and keeper for monkey battle, and then awarded an associates of applied science degree... Am I a mill?
     
  5. Jodokk

    Jodokk Member

    Certificates and Diplomas

    At most CC one can earn a certificate (a few credits, basic knowledge.) a diploma (a step closer to the associates degree) and an associates of applied arts or sciences (a non-transferable-to-RA-institutions degree, usually) and finally, the coveted Associates Degree, a truly RA degree!
    That's how it runs down around here.
    Dan B
     
  6. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    There are also "diplomas" and "postgraduate diplomas" offered by Australian and South African universities. They all mean different things. This is why I was seeking clarification.
    Jack
     
  7. Jodokk

    Jodokk Member

    Oh, I see.

    Hmm, I can dig that. I'm totally unfamiliar with the SA and AU degrees and such. I would be interested in finding out as well.
    Dan B
     
  8. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    Academic certificates are more like degrees than certifications but at a much lower level. Professional certifications often require an education andexperience requirement where academic certificates require coursework.

    Some diplomas and certificates are very well recv'd in academic and business circles. An example would be a graduate certificate from an Ivy in epidemiology held by someone with an MPH.

    A diploma in bookkeeping from local town community college will help you get a bookkeeping job but it is not the same as a BAcct. or even a BS in Business with a few accounting courses.

    Certificates and diplomas from schools like Ed Direct or PCDI are truly entry level basic preparation.

    Genreally, but not always:

    Certificate -- for completion of a program of study generally under 1 year. Often as little as a semester. Certificates are sometimes awarded for completion of just a couple classes. Often entry level training or education, sometimes very specialized training in a field.

    Diploma -- For completion of a program of study of more than one year but less than two. Sometimes used for completion of a program in the arts at three years but less than four. Often entry level education and training. This term is also used to describe the form that degrees and certificates are awarded on as in "my high school diploma".

    Associate's Degree -- For completion of a program of study of at least two years or 60 semester hours.

    Bachelors Degree -- For completion of a program of study of at least four and sometimes 5 years. 120-160 semester hours.

    Graduate Certificate -- for completion of a program of study less than 30 semester hours beyond the bachelor's degree but at a level equal to master's study (but not equal to the degree).

    Master's Degree -- for completion of 30+ hours beyond the bachelor's of advanced study. Varies by field and degree.

    Advanced Graduate Certificate and Specialist Degree -- for completion of specified additional study at the graduate level beyond the master's degree. Sometimes also "post-graduate or post-master's certificate".

    Doctorate -- for completion of specified study beyond the bachelor's and often the master's level. Varies by field and degree.

    These are academic designations and differ from professional designations.

    Professional designations such as certification are awarded by professional associations while licenses are most often awarded by governments.

    So, a person could have an MBA (master's degree) and be a CFP (professional designation) and be a CPA (state license) -- each of these is different but use similar terms.

    A certificate in computer applications would not be equal to the Microsoft certification as MOUS though the former might help the applicant get the MOUS. Since there are no standardized expectations, that certificate in computer applications may well have taught more material and at a higher level than the MOUS tested, then again it might not have.

    In some fields such as cosmetology, the certificate is generally the entry level credential to allow for state licensing. The state license is required in order to actually go to work.

    Credit from an RA certificate program will sometimes transfer to an RA BA/BS program provided the coursework is at the lower-level undergraduate level and not vocational/technical. This is true of work done in an AAS program as well -- the courses themselves must be at the right level to transfer.
     
  9. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

  10. Abbacabba

    Abbacabba New Member

    Great information.

    Thanks to all who responded.


    one more question...


    The issue of PLA as it applys to degrees is a highly debated topic here.

    Would PLA be more suited towards diploma's as well?

    More to the point.. Would it be likely that a diploma earned through PLA alone valid.

    Are there any reputable places doing this right now?
     
  11. LBTRS

    LBTRS Member

    Interesting information...all this time I thought the piece of paper I have stating I was issued a degree was a diploma.

    Learn something new every day.
     
  12. RevPeter

    RevPeter Member

    Dear Jack,

    In the British & Irish scheme of University education, a certificate is generally equivalent to 1/3 of a degree, the first year of a degree course. A diploma is equivalent to 2/3 of a degree, two years of study, so approximately the same as an associate degree in the USA.

    At postgraduate level it is largely the same - a post-grad cert is 1/3 of a masters degree, a pg dip is 2/3 (usually the coursework without the research).

    These are well respected as real university qualifications, but it is acknowledged that they are for a shorter period of time than a degree.

    There are one or two exceptions - one that springs to mind is the PGCE (Post Graduate Certificate in Education - UK), and HDipEd (Higher Diploma in Education - Ireland). These are one-year full time courses that prepare those with degrees to be school teachers - it is often argued by many people that they are broadly similar to an MEd, but for historic reasons they have never been given degree status. Also, they are (basically) the same qualification, but are a Certificate in the UK and a diploma in Ireland.

    Until recent years there was a distinction between "professional" and "academic" courses of study - academic courses awarded a degree, and professional courses awarded a certificate or diploma. E.g. Primary school teachers studied for a CertEd (which is now a BEd), Seminarians for a DivTest (Divinity Testimonium), or a GOE (General Ordination Exam) now a BTh.

    There are also external diplomas, generally offered by music colleges, usually titles Associate, Licentiate and Fellow - eg FRCO = Fellow of the Royal College of Organists, ARIAM = Associate of the Royal Irish Academy of Music. These diplomas are of very variable standard, largely depending on the awarding institution. Some are of university entrance standard or lower, some are examined at 1st year post-graduate level.

    P

    __________________
    BA (Queen's University, Belfast)
    MPhil (Trinity College, Dublin)
    FLSMR, FNSCM, ARIAM, ANMSM, ACertCM
     
  13. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Interesting information. Thanks. You may be able to answer a question I've had for some time. It has seemed to me that earning a Postgraduate Diploma would be an indication of some structured advanced study beyond the Bachelors (Honors) degree level and that this might be attractive to employers and might assist someone in their application for a Masters or Doctoral degree program. However, I've also imagined that a Postgraduate Diploma might be useful for someone who was changing fields of study. For example, if someone had earned a Bachelors degree in English Literature and then decided that they wanted to pursue a career in Anthropology, they might earn a Post Graduate Diploma in Anthropology as a sort of transition to the new field. In this way they would be moving forward (not earning a second Bachelors degree), establishing a kind of foundation of study in the new field, and creating a history of scholarship in the new discipline that would assist in their entrance to a Masters/Doctral program. Have I got that about right?
    Just curious.
    Jack
     
  14. RevPeter

    RevPeter Member

    Dear Jack,

    Yes, a PGDip would indicate structured advanced study beyond the Bachelors (Hons) degree.

    Yes, it might be attractive to employers.

    Yes, it might assist in an application for a Masters or Doctoral programme. However, in the Irish / British system it is generally the coursework part of a Masters degree, it is not often a stand-alone qualification, so questions may be raised as to why the research component wasn't completed for the Masters degree.

    It certainly would seem a sensible way of changing fields, in exactly the same way as an MDiv has replaced the BD in the USA. However, I'm not sure how common it is to be able to enter a PGDip programme without a related first degree - usually it is building on the first degree, and a stepping stone towards a related masters.

    You mention "moving forward" in terms of acquiring a PGDip rather than another Bachelors. It seems, from having read this group for some time now, and having discussed with American colleagues, that there is a very defined progression in American academia from Bachelor-Master-Doctor. In the British system it is not always so clear cut. There are universities where the Masters Degree (usually MA) is a primary degree, and the bachelors is the postgraduate (BD, LLB, etc). For example, a student going to St Andrew's University, Scotland, might study for an MTheol directly after leaving school, and then, if grades were high enough, read for a BD. In Cambridge, the BD is classed as higher than the PhD... The only American case of this I can find is the LLM being post JD.

    Sorry this has veered slightly off topic. I hope I've actually answered your question!

    Regards,

    P


    __________________
    BA Hons (Queen's University, Belfast)
    MPhil (Trinity College, Dublin)
    FLSMR, FNSCM, ARIAM, ANMSM, ACertCM
     
  15. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Yes, thanks very much. I have run into several differences between the US educational system and the British. I am less familiar with any differences that exist the US system and the Irish system as there are few Irish (are there any?) distance learning offerings available to non-residents. Thanks again.
    Jack
     
  16. RevPeter

    RevPeter Member

    The Irish system is basically the same as the British.

    At present there are no DL courses, and it no sign of any being introduced in the near future.

    P
     
  17. PJFrench

    PJFrench member

    A slight variation in Australia that bears on Jack's question...

    Our GradCert/GradDip/Masters is a very similar plan to UK/Ireland. However if one wanted to change professions this can be accomplished in some areas by doing the core only of a degree course but as a Grad Dip. Examples are Accountancy and Teaching. It is essentially undergraduate units offered to graduates of another discipline supposedly in a post graduate environment - quite debatable as you will be studying and being examined along with undergraduates - so is it really post graduate study?

    One other option that I use with mid age/mid career adults is where they do not have any undergraduate degree. They could not get into a masters directly, but can get into a Grad Cert. If their results are good enough, then they go to the Grad Dip, and hopefully to the Masters. I have a small caseload of people doing this with the MBA and Masters in IT. This route is far quicker than going the undergraduate route.

    Of course this will annoy some of us who have worked our butts off to earn the 'real' degree the 'proper' way.

    Just to follow the 'veering away' pattern set by Rev Peter one really needs to check and see what the degree really is. For example I have a BEd which is a post graduate 4 years degree in education - other BEd degrees are 4 year teaching degree with 2 years teaching studies and 2 years teaching subject core and not post graduate. You need a BEd to get into my MEd but at some places anyone with a degree can do a MEd.

    And people think that the US system is confusing? I never accept the 'diploma' from anyone - I always request the transcript and that way, on further enquiry I should be able to find what the degree really is....!
     

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